Bella Morte
Do they have a name?
“Goth” is actually not how they identify themselves. They prefer “subculture.” What’s the difference? Little, as far as I know. I suspect the term actually came from “Subculture Shock,” a 91.9 WNRN program on Sunday nights hosted by Chris Knight, so it’s a local adaptation of the mainstream.
How old are they?
They range in age from 12 to 30-somethings.
How do you get in the group?
“Who you know” is an in. One very young girl got pulled in through family. Aesthetics are important. You may notice a lot of teens with shaved eyebrows, black hair, extraneous piercings, and tall buckled boots and trenchcoats (even in summer heat). No pain, no gain. Then it’s about scene– being at Bella Morte and In Tenebris concerts and other local goth/punk/metal shows at Tokyo Rose and Outback Lodge and so on. What you can’t see is that there has historically been a complex hierarchy in the main group, with a “president” and “vice-president.” It’s been a year or two since I’ve been in the know, but I haven’t seen either lately. I hope they’re not in jail– they were surprisingly polite and articulate gentlemen. There have also been competing groups.
What are they into?
Music, body modification, suspension, things that are dark. Also, drugs, petty vandalism. It’s an expensive lifestyle to maintain, in my opinion. That could explain the pandhandling. For whatever reason, scientology comes to mind…
How do they feel about the other half?
I suspect the “other half” rejected them, whether it was in school or at home, so they sought refuge in an internally sound community of similarly alienated people. By dressing in black, taking on body modification, listening to Marilyn Manson, and loitering in the city center, they subvert the society that expelled them. They’re empowered to a position of reciprocal alienation, so to speak. Still, I think a lot of those kids are terribly lonely. It just doesn’t seem natural to me to enjoy being regarded as a “freak.” To be honest, it could be an important phase for adolescent identity development, but I really hope that that’s it– a “phase.”
What should I do when I see them?
Talk to them! It will be a far more interesting conversation than with your hair stylist. Make eye contact and say hi at least. If the sight of them upsets you, then don’t make them feel like victims, just let it go. The truth is, I’ve been told they really just don’t care about me, a random pedestrian, as much as I think. Who’s winning now?
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Having been a ‘punk’ with combat boots, dog chains, and tattoo on the streets of Richmond back in the day, I am not intimidated by adolescents who decorate themselves in elaborate hairstyles and angsty expressions.
I do find that adolescents in general can be really, really annoying and not at all as interesting as they think they were. This applies to me as a teenager, too. Mostly because they go from being interested and entranced with the world to being obsessed with themselves.
The funny irony about most punks, goths, hippies, and other ’subsets’, is that they are ALL about being nonjudgmental and nonsuperficial about appearances — and then they judge everyone (including themselves) by how they look. SO they might see me and think I’m not “cool” because I have on relatively boring attire - and have no idea what’s going on in my head, which is pretty wild, I tell you. An annoying irony I pray everyone grows out of (some never do).
Wait, explain why I would want to talk to some goth… er, subculture teenagers loitering on the downtown mall, as opposed to any other group? Most of the time they’re just blocking my direct path from A to B. <oldmanrant>
I do appreciate their comments when I ride on my chariot on the mall.
Real goths wouldn’t panhandle, they’re almost always overpriveleged as the result of upper-middleclass parents. You’re thinking of gutterpunks, which although similar in appearance are wholly different in ideology and interest.
I completely respect your opinion on this situation, but that’s just what it is: an opinion. And from some of the details you’ve listed here (Chris Knight hasn’t hosted SubCulture shock in over 2 years, and you’re more likely to find Goth kids listening to obscure bands from Europe than Marilyn Manson, though he’s kind of the “guilty pleasure” of the Goth scene) it sounds like a slightly uninformed opinion.
As with all scenes, be they mainstream or otherwise, there are always cliques within, but the idea of a “president and vice president” is kind of silly. There are people that the majority of the scene respects, but it’s not like anybody’s in charge.
I agree that one should react to Goths the way they react to anybody else. You shouldn’t go out of your way to talk to them anymore than you would any other random person on the street, but they shouldn’t be shunned either. Because there are quite a few people that you see out there without the spikes and chains that are as into the scene as the kids with makeup and faces like tackleboxes. It’s not a matter of fashion, but the love of the music and ideals that bind us together. And in that way, we’re different, but more similar to you than either may be willing to admit.
One last addition, there. Having been to college parties, worked in restaurants, and attended all sorts of gatherings not related to goth at all, I’ll tell you that you’re more likely to find popular college students and “respectable citizens” doing drugs than a group of goths. Sure, they like to drink, but I think one of the great things about the scene is how hard the promoters of the clubs try to keep underage drinking and any form of drug-use out of the clubs, so that everyone, regardless of age, has a fun but safe place to go.
i’ll never cease to be amazed. people are still treating goths like they’re some new religion or something. here’s a thought:
Goth’s hang out at the downtown mall.
*so do lots of other people.*
Some goth kids cause trouble.
*so do lots of other people.*
Lots of goths are really nice people.
*so are lots of other people.*
wait a second… is it possible that Goths *are just normal people* that wear a specific style of clothing and enjoy a particular style or styles of music?
A Revelation!
Martin you are right, but this post is Tongue-in-cheek. Plus, they do stand out. UVA kids stand out. We make fun of them as well.
Hi Thor,
i can respect that the article was intended to be “tongue-in-cheek”,but it certainly doesn’t read that way, and i hope that you understand that it’s definitely a slippery slope. i think that you will find that the difficulties that arise between people based on trivial things like the color of one’s clothing is equal to the amount of energy we spend drawing attention to those differences.
This is just really bad writing. If it was designed to be tongue-in-cheek, it fails pretty miserably at conveying that, instead coming across as mean-spirited and poorly informed.
Please post, then! Prove me wrong! This is a democracy. This website would be really lame if it didn’t make people react. And yeah, lots of people do bad things.
If this is the way the Goth community of Cville really feels, I challenge you to educate us on Cvillain about your social clique. I am sure all of us are very curious to find out more about this sub-culture we superficially find weird. Yes yes, the weirdness does have a lot to do with the clothing and makeup.
En garde!
Coco
Perhaps i’m reading this incorrectly, but it seems like you are missing the point.
Goths are People, just like you and me. Goths like a specific kind of music, yes, and a specific type of dress, yes, but i guarantee you that you see people dressed all in black every day that want nothing to do with the subculture, and just as many people that dress like frat kids that love the music.
And *that* is the point. There is no specific way to treat a goth, no more so than there is a specific way to treat a stranger wearing red. Don’t judge these people based on what they’re wearing and i bet they’re going to think twice before judging you.
Shouldn’t the answer *always* be politeness, no matter what specific subgenre of music a person just happens to have on their iPod? Perhaps someone can explain why anyone needs an education for that?
Wow…………
Been around the scene for a long time. Can tell you straight off the bat that for the most part, this ‘article’ is for the most part wrong on every piece of information it outlines. It looks to be written by somebody who got their information from a scare article circa 1997, someone who hasn’t bothered to go meet anybody on the ‘goth’ scene, and someone with a really bad sense of tongue-in-cheekness. Chris Knight doesn’t even live here anymore, amongst other half-assed bits of misinformation.
Which brings us to this: being rejected.
Doesn’t everybody get rejected? I meant really, touting the members of a certain social clique as being the way they are because they feel rejected is just surface. Rejection is everywhere. It’s in the type-A personality yuppie kids, it’s in the punk scene, it’s in the hip-hop scene, jazz scene, jam band scene, the metal scene. Iconoclasts abound in this day and age, as the internet compresses idea space to the distance between you and your wireless router. We all go through the same things, but the personality of the individual controls the way that person deals with the trials and tribulations of everyday life. Some people drink, some people obsessively clean their kitchens, some people trade stocks for fun, some people go to the gun range. Some people dress in black.
But the fact of the matter is, everybody ends up being the same as the person next to them, whether they listen to Mose Allison or Bauhaus; because we, as a society, as a human animal only have but so many hardwired reactions to things. So put yourself in their shoes for a second, and you will see that we are all, underneath it all, more alike than people who write articles like this want us to be.
This is a pure, disgusting example of someone trying to put up dividing lines between people for the sake of villification. Whether or not it was meant to be satire, or just a good ribbing doesn’t matter. The ineptitude of the author’s prose goes to great lengths to show that they absolutely, positively have nothing to say other than: ‘hey lookit the weirdos’. Driving wedges between people when one has nothing at all to say is a disservice to society. It creates a disconnect with the people, and that creates tension. We have nothing to fear from people ‘different’ from us, because they are, when all is said and done, not different from us at all. We are all the same. And that is a thing of beauty when you think about it.
Stay tuned. Video is coming…
And yes, there is a lot of outdated information! I issued a couple of disclaimers about timing. I’ll change the title because it’s misleading, but I’m keeping the original post up because you’re updating the info from it. Thank you. And I should add that I’ve always wanted to be the waspy “I summer in the Bahamas” type you’re making me out to be. Ah, we all have dreams.
I’ve been to the dawning a lot, even though I’m not a goth, mostly because I enjoy the music (In Tenebris and Bella Morte are some of the best bands to come out of this town), and all the people there are really nice, even though ones that are sort of freakish looking (there’s one guy in mind that is always around the downtown mall that I am sure all of you have seen at one point or another). And based on my experience, the only people that goths really don’t like are people that make fun of them. It has nothing to do with appearance.
So they probably wouldn’t like lilith.
Kudos to Lillith for her being so willing to take responsibility for her misinformation.
first things first - goth is called “goth.” it is not called “subculture.”
[…] The Goth Kids […]
most of these people are probably smarter than all of us combined. just let people be who they are. one love
Kevin needs to get off his high horse and remember that when a person spends hours putting their look together, THEY WANT TO BE LOOKED AT. They want attention, either from people who don’t dress like them or…people who do dress like them. Or both. Nothing says “look at the freak” better than spending the morning intentionally dressing in the freakiest way possible. I’m not hating. I’m keeping it real. A uniform is a uniform, whether you put it on to join or put it on to “not join.”
Also, are we distinguishing here between “goth” kids and “squatter” adults?
it is evident from the article that there is no differentiation between “goth” kids and “squatter” adults. perhaps the author is grouping goth, punks, and gypsies in one collective eccentric looking group.
if she were to legitimately research such curiosities, she would need only venture to outback lodge any saturday incognito, of course. further investigation would reveal that few goth are panhandlers or persons of privilege, most are people with jobs.
as for the previous comment, people dress in clothes of comfort and occasion. my quirky, polychromatic style is comfortable for me yet indicative to others that “I WANT TO BE LOOKED AT.” i would venture a guess that such is true for occasion: the dawning and foxfields alike. everyday style is a casual reflection OF occasion that one is not considered a poseur FOR occasion. if the majority of goth wore their dawning ensembles throughout the week [disclaimer: Savvas and his posse aside] we might have a more pressing article at hand.
iamglamazon is here! rock on! welcome aboard…
~dj wild bird hunter
imaglamazon, I thought you were grape, but I was wrong! good to see you here!
that’s weird caroline cuz I totally thought you were iamglamazon.
do you have a mustang with the license plate “amazon”?
iamglamazon is teh hawt coolness, so I see the confusion, as there is so much hawt coolness around these parts.
/shameless pandering, yes we can!
b-yo…you are iamglamazon
I. Am. Glamazon!
Has she lost her mind?
All we can see is her behind
Twice as tall as a man
Run away from Glamazon as fast as you can
28: I suspect these were the exaggerations you were after.
stanley, that is among the most awesomest of awesome things I’ve ever seen.
stanley, i need more towels than george has spawned this as a father of the country.
thanks.:)
that wasn’t really gud english- i just had my mind melting for a moment, and wanted to share back.
on thread:
so if people who wear all black on the mall and hang out with each other are goths- does that mean everyone who waits on us at restaurants and bars are goth?!
/i mean, tips are panhandling, right?!
//restaurant staff are also empowered to a postition of reciprocal alienation- i mean, like it’s totally cool if i drop a glass on the floor and it breaks and i walk away- cause that’s what those freaks wearing black are there for…
@ 27 b-yo…you are iamglamazon
Nope, I’m neither hawt nor cool. But I. A. G. is an old friend, so I can vouch.
Is glamazon that tall guy who wears crazy gothish outfits and makeup ?
glamazon is teh hawtness. Was driving by her once with my dad, nephew and bro-in-law in the vehicle, and they all snapped their necks gawking. Even the nephew. Think he went into early puberty that day.
@25 nope
as for the primary post: admittedly largely out of date by author, will thus refrain from further comment
i will catch up on the replies instead
23: WILD BIRDS OF CENTRAL VIRGINIA!
25: uva, i went up to some girl at plan 9 and asked if she was lagrape. she was, she denied it
32: scoriole, not all people who wear all black are goth. when your delicate veil of anonymity dissolves, you will promptly be pounced by the server ninja army. tip your servers or stay at home!
34: glamazon is someone in your life you understand/want to be of the glamazonian tribe, iamglamazon
35: luckily no car accident
i suspect miss lagrape of trying to rile me for reasons unknown (@28, assorted posts in other threads). you know where to find me, feel free to apprise me of your motives.
@37: You misunderstood scoriole @32. She is a server. She was being sarcastic. And like most service industry people, she tips well when she goes out. But anyways, tell us what Grapey looks like.
you’ve seen her teeth shen
@34: No, iamglamazon is a hot chick. Was way too easy to find her myspace.
38: as was i returning the sarcasm. server ninja army?…well, i guess scoriole & i could start one if we were so inclined.
and i am only being partially sarcastic in claiming to have found out uva lagrape. if lagrape is truly half black, then my suspect is merely in the lineup. she’s rougly 5′10″ with naturally dark brown wavy hair, dark, slightly large eyes, fit frame.
I know who iamglamazon is. The weird part is she has no clue who I am. Oh well.
42 see 40. maybe i do know who you are