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This is the first of a three-part series on dating in Charlottesville. I’ve never claimed to know how to make a relationship last, likely because I enjoy the dating process enough not to settle into something I (and the guy) don’t think will last. I always figured I’d know just by being with the one I want it to last with.
Dating is not that transparent. It’s remarkable to me that when I meet someone, I put so much stock in the first date, before there’s real communication and trust. If we all decided whether or not to stay at our jobs based on our first day, we’d be on cVillain.com all day long. (Oh wait… ha.) But sometimes, it’s a later date or a random run-in that makes me fall, or I think I’ve just had a smooth date but I don’t get called again. Let’s set reasonable expectations, which is to say low expectations, and relax. Enjoy the butterflies while they last.
The first date.
I’ll start with a disclaimer that I take a somewhat traditional approach to dating. My style is to make it known that I am interested and respond enthusiastically to being asked out. (Why make the man doubt me early on?) The men I go for tend to take me out to restaurants for first dates (love it!), I always offer to pay, and they rarely let me (and I’ve split many a bill). I will pick up the tab for a round of nightcaps or a subsequent date. I like doors opened for me. It’s such a small gesture that goes so far.
What restaurant? Base this decision on what you can afford and what you both might like. When a man asks where a woman wants to go, answering “anywhere” is clearly a lie and does not come off as open-minded. Of course women have preferences! A good hint: someone should recommend 3-5 restaurants and let the other pick from that. Most women I know just appreciate going somewhere with style. Continental Divide and Mono Loco are practically perfect. Why? They’re not “vanilla.” They’re… vanilla sopaipilla. Memorable. The menus are creative, the interiors warm. Why else? People. Specifically, fun people. I think a “scene” diffuses the intensity of being on a first date, personally. And? The prices are mid-range.
As much as I enjoy restaurants like Boheme, Ten, and Mas, I recommend holding out. I find that the fine dining first date is too intense with most men. As I get older, though, I’ll admit that I mind intensity less and less. These dates let me know the men were serious about me, and I wanted to be taken seriously by them. If you’re not sure about your potential as a couple, wait.
Some of my favorite first dates took me to the Shebeen, Basil Mediterranean Bistro, and Twisted Branch Tea Bazaar. The Shebeen has incredible food, and it would be a daring suggestion– but he read me as an adventurous person. (True.) I appreciated being brought to Basil because I’d made it known I liked Belgian beer early on, and this gentleman knew they offered 25 Belgian beers. Twisted Branch was interesting because the guy went there a lot, and I was flattered that he would bring me to “his” hangout.
If I feel I have to step outside of my comfort zone to impress a date, I’ll reconsider the date. I’ll give two examples, but do not expect them to reflect all women. I recently met a man at a restaurant for what I was certain was a date– until I was introduced to his friends and coworkers. I actually feel threatened and marginalized by group dates because I can’t think of a flattering reason to warrant one– either the date was not actually a date (common, I think), the date is not worth missing time with friends, or I am being trophied and shown off (ha!). Some people enjoy them, so again, it’s subjective. My second example is better. Last year, a man brought me to one of our two tapas restaurants but was clearly not into it. His body language exuded discomfort with the setting, and he barely touched the food. I never asked to be taken there, so I was relieved to see the seeds of what would amount to a lot of incompatible traits. So what? So I ate his share and moved on. We can have as many first dates as we need.
The first kiss.
First dates so often end with first kisses– or are preceded by them! But one of my favorite first dates ended with a first kiss on the forehead after Continental Divide. I was stunned– how could this man take me on a perfect date, walk me to my door, and then not kiss me on the lips? And the forehead? But four years later, I am still talking about it (but over him, naturally), and I still love it when a man waits to kiss me. Really, what is the rush?
And I’ll stop there. Just some food for thought.
Please respond! Am I conservative, compared to your taste? Or do you think “vanilla” is better for a first date? Have you been on a date, sitting a few tables away from an ex? What’s your dream date in Charlottesville?
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Tagged as: Activities, Downtown Mall, Men, Questions, Singles Scene
I’m long since married and am not 100% sure what my first date with my wife was .. I think I invited her over to play Crazy Taxi.
I am a hopeless romantic, it’s true.
now that I think of it, based on your excellent descriptions - I don’t think I’ve ever actually been on a “date”. I want to get to know someone first, know that they’re someone I’ll feel comfortable being with and opening up to, so that by the time we’re going out to eat, I’m locked into the “friend” zone.
That’s something I’ve never understood ladies - why do you all seem so adamant against “progressing” from friendship to something more? Lust is easy. Even Love is easy. Finding someone whose company you genuinely enjoy, who you are compatable with, is rare. Someone you can trust, someone you can tell anything to, and will tell you anything. I’m overwhelmed with lust everytime I walk down the mall - there are so many physically attractive women out there - but I can count on one hand those deeper connections I’ve found in my life.
It just seems to me you’re trading in a the potential for a lifetime of comfort and happiness for that 3 initial months of “oh my god” passion, which seems to end around the time you realize that the physical aspect wasn’t enough to sustaine the relationship. Lather, rinse, repeat.
I have found that first dates are usually pretty easy (it’s asking for them that I find hard). Since you don’t know each other yet, you have plenty of things to talk about and can go on and on. It’s the later ones where you’re just kind of like “Anyway…” (anyone remember “Ordinary People”?) that get awkward. I think how you get past that stage is a determining factor of where the relationship is or isn’t going. Exciting non-vanilla dates certainly help; I think karaoke is an especially excellent date idea, and anyone I date must be into it or we will have some serious issues.
I find your take on the first kiss interesting. What say the other ladies of cvillain?
And my dream date in Charlottesville is the one I go on with Cameron Diaz.
First (and second and third) dates while seated near an ex . . . it’s a classic, especially here in our little C’ville bubble (tell me this has happened to you!).
Awkward though it may be, the chance encounter is actually an excellent indicator of possible longevity. Do you panic inwardly for the rest of the date, or can you handle it seamlessly?
Oh, and Himalayan Fusion is great for a low-key date. Cozy but not overly so, and the food begs for sharing.
My take on the 1st kiss, Tim - I agree with Lilith.
The restraint is actually really refreshing, and you figure that the guy can hold his own instead of following stereotypes/protocol. The wait (however long or short) heightens the awareness. Makes it that much better.
Oy, I’ll bite on your question regarding the friendship zone. Not everyone views the route to romance in the same way. For me, I tend to cut a path between friendship-to-romance and full-on dating, right out of the box. There is nothing wrong with trying to get to know a person, before diving into intimacy. In my mind, it’s essential. I have a saying: I’ve never regretted passing up the opportunity to sleep with someone. In every situation, learning a little bit more (and avoiding the early leap) has been a bullet dodged.
However, I do believe that you can linger in friendship-land too long. I’m definitely guilty of branding a guy with a permanent “friend” label, when things don’t progress at a reasonable speed. What’s reasonable? Depends upon the situation. Dating a guy from Richmond means allowing for a slower build. But you know that from the outset. Seeing a guy, locally, for endless coffees, movies and casual concerts, always meeting in public, always splitting the bills and all the while seeing no outward appearance of romantic interest will lead one directly toward that friend label. Why? Lots of reasons. Could be that there are other guys who are more outgoing and obvious about their interest; in that contest, slow pursuit usually loses out. Could be that the girl has a lot of male friends, as I have, and doesn’t see female/male friendship as something that necessarily needs to lead to romance. She’s used to hanging out with guys as a pal and frankly, friendship to romance might come a bit out of left field; it might be almost (but not quite) as surprising as a female friend coming on to her.
Like it or not, relationships of all types start with context. In the beginning, context is still developing and subject to change. Wait too long and context decides the relationship for you. In some way, at least one party has to signal interest. Why not split the difference? Let your interest be known, but say that you’d like to move slowly. Really get to know the girl. I wouldn’t necessarily put it in terms of “let’s try friendship and then move on if it works out.” No one likes feeling as if they are being temporarily taken on for further examination or interviewed for possible promotion out of friend-land. Make it a dating relationship, from the outset. Make your interest clear, even if it’s only “I’m intrigued and I’d like to learn more.” From there, move at your own speed. I consider it a sign of respect if a guy let’s me know he’s interested, but wants to move slowly. Complete bonus points. But endless meet-ups, without an actual sign of interest? Yup. Leads to friendship. Period. It’s all in the context. Send out “friendship” vibes, and that’s what you get. Send out “interest” vibes and you’ll at least set the stage for eventual intimacy. How long it takes to get there is up to you.
I had a first date that was absolutely magical four months ago, but I don’t want to talk about it cause I just got kicked to the curb last night. “Enjoy the butterflies while they last.” True, this.
I am a very sad yo. Sorry to mourn publicly, Im just not right in the head right now. I will go back in my hole now.
yo,
I’m in the same boat as you buddy, now I’m picking up my self esteem and heading back out there. Ipersonally hate dating, I split from my long time girlfriend back in Jan. Haven’t had much luck until July this year, met an amazing leggy blond med student. We kept it classy, as I do, going on dinner dates, dancing, movies, and the such. Then things started to move towards “hey lets just watch a movie at your house and order a pizza.” Thats when it got stale. After a couple weeks, we both couldnt stand each other, i tried to rekindle that spark we once had with surprise dinners out and flowers for no reason, but it was out.
I never really dated before now, i had a highschool girl that lasted into college, then a college girlfriend that lasted into my current state(whatever mid 20’s).
Im 26 and just now “dating.”
weird..
cb
Yeah, I get it - I just don’t know what kind of vibes I tend to send. If I think I’m sending out the “wanna get sweaty?” vibe and don’t receive one in return, is it because she’s not getting the message I’m trying to send, I’m not getting her “sure!” message, or is my basic assumption correct - she’s responding with “ewwww, as if!”.
I’ve just seen it too many times - after the first amazing 3 months, we’re they’re all over each other, can’t get enough of each other, start making long term plans, they wake up and realize that it was all hormones and it quickly spirals out of control; then I guess I’m the complete opposite - “slow and steady” can’t “win the race” if it doesn’t cross the starting line. I give up - I think I’ll just pick a nice name for my body pillow and go cuddle with “her”…
Thanks for the response - I guess I’m with Yo in a bad place. This bear just needs to hibernate for a few months…
I’ve only been on one “first date” in the traditional sense that I was asked out and that we didn’t know each other well before said date. I remember being impressed that he asked if he could kiss me, but I think my 19 year-old self found this to be as close to chivalrous as you could expect from a guy you met in Spanish class. Because I started dating my now husband during my senior year of college, I missed the whole adult dating world. Of course, as I’m a serial monogamist anyway, even First Date Guy turned into a four month relationship.
And Oy, I am that girl who turns all her friendships into relationships - that’s why I was never single (and probably why I had so many male friends now that I look back on things…)
If said first date is over dinner, I think the key tactic is to choose a comfortable, somewhat familiar location so that you can focus on learning more about your counterpart and not be distracted by strange menu options, decor, bathroom siting, etc. I like to ask many open-ended questions and let my future tryst talk (or not…) so as to get a clearer sense of personality and decide what direction the relationship moves from there. The more relaxed both parties are, the easier it is to infuse one’s own personality into the conversation.
I avoid, and dislike being subjected to, the dreaded job-interview style speed dater’s interrogation. I’m more into gauging my date’s personality at first, and the biographical details are just so much white noise. Also, I think there is an obligation to give what I get, and offer up a few glimpses of who I am. While I want to make a good impression on Date #1, I think it’s more important to put my true self out there - that tends to answer most of my questions about compatibility. Regarding displays of affection - I don’t expect a goodnight kiss unless the sparks have REALLY been flying, but if I envision more than friendship I will try to express that.
Off topic: B-yo, so sorry to hear about your unfortunate ending. Rejection notices are no fun! Please do me and your many adoring audiophile accolytes a favor and lock up that copy of The Cure’s Pornography album - it will only make things much, much worse (from firsthand experience). Probably best to hide the Joy Division too!
Tim– so true about having a “dream date” of an activity you love. I just haven’t been asked out on a karaoke date! I liked a comedy club first date a LOT, so offensive, so disarming! Bowling has been fun, too. I don’t love hiking or wine tasting as a first. Intensity, again. Parts 2 and 3 will help with the subsequent date awkwardness. It’s very true!
ThatGrrl– I love your suggestion of asking for a date from the onset of feelings to avoid perpetual “friend” context. You are so right.
oy– I’ve very rarely gone from “friend” to “more.” Friends with benefits, even, has ended when someone finds someone else, or realizes they were just friends to begin with for a reason. You might have the intimate emotional connection without chemistry or sexual attraction, but it can be very deceiving.
cb and yo– Sorry to hear about the breaks. Stick with it, just have fun. Crossing my fingers for you.
Question: How do you guys feel about meeting someone through a friend or being set up? Too much pressure? Worried about hurting your social life if you don’t work out, seeing who your mutual friends “side” with?
mintyfresh– Nice. I agree with you that interrogations are rough, and I avoid telling too much information and, conversely, being too vague so as not to put myself out there at all. I also don’t pry. I never, ever want to know how many women my future husband has slept with. (Why?!) But if it’s important to me, I’ll say it. If they judge me or if it’s a deal-breaker, better to know early on. That having been said, I haven’t told any dates since April that I’m lilith. I live in fear of the “Didn’t you write that awful thing about lingerie? Check please.”
Think I’m not ’splainin’ myself very well - it’s not that I look for that emotional connection before chemistry or attraction, but when I feel that chemistry or attraction, I look for something more before attempting to act on that attraction. I don’t get to know someone, get close to them, and then decide to flip on the ‘I’m attracted to her’ switch. If that attraction is there from the beginning, it doesn’t go away as we become closer, but just the opposite - it becomes so much more than it was initially.
Lilith, my admittedly prurient recollection of your lingerie expose was that you wrote something akin to (paraphrasing): “Flirt has an array of exotic $50 thong bikinis that cover four square inches of flesh, and will be worn for no more than ten minutes. Personally, I prefer going commando.” Trust me on this one, that statement is NOT a deal-breaker!
dating is complicated, period. it’s even harder in Charlottesville, because it’s so small. FACT.
But let’s face it as men. The harder you are ON THE LOOKOUT for a date/happy ending the less you are going to find. Girls have this 6th sense that knows desperation. They don’t take pity on those who exude eagerness. I think the best approach for men in general is to focus on having a good time. If your end all I had a good time equates to getting laid, you are in for a reality check (unless you are a 10 in the hot or not world). Let’s add that if you are having a good time on a date with or without a happy ending, girls are going to think much higher about you.
Even on dates, you should just go with the flow and hey if 4 drinks happen and things get a little more intimate, go with the flow. But serious relationships aren’t built on random hookups, at least in my experience.
Maybe I’m more traditional about things.. who knows? It’s dating; they’re aren’t rules.
didn’t Lilith cause Adam so much headache that he had to trade her in for Eve (stepford wife)?
cb, I truly appreciate your empathy, but while we may be in the same lake, I doubt you would want a ride in my boat. Try “getting back out there” at forty with two jobs, half time custody of two teenagers, and a gay ex wife (nothing like moving to rural virginia from the gay mecca of the world only to have ones s.o. of ten years make such a ‘beautiful self discovery’ within six months) in a town with a social scene of about the size of a small craft fair. Oooh, and make one of those jobs one where you have to stand up in front of people at a regular time and entertain them and be “on” and every crazy ex you’ve ever had can come up and rattle your cage. Explain to you potential suitors that you only really have monday night off, and have to be at work the next day. Toss in money problems, drinking problems and sleep apnea just for spice…
So ladies. How you doin’?
Damn… I have turned the happy “first date butterfly kissy kissy” post into some emo kid’s livejournal account. Really, I will stop. Im just wallowing, I’ll get over it.
lilith - I tend to shy away from set-ups. I’ve said yes to a couple, but they never worked out. Then you’re left with that awkward conversation later, when the friend asked how the date went. Trying to answer nicely, without blurting “How in the hell could you set me up with him? Do you know me at all?” can be challenging. I much prefer telling my “helpful” friend that I’d appreciate the opportunity to meet the set-up in a low impact environment, preferably involving a huge crowd and a modicum of alcohol. That way, you get to meet casually, it isn’t the sole source of entertainment for the evening and you can leave quietly if it doesn’t spark a love connection.
oy - I hear you. Vibes are a tough one, which is why I’m a big fan of making sure you’re sending the right ones using good old fashioned words. It is amazing how far the simple words “I like you; could we grab a drink some time?” can go for setting the stage. It doesn’t overstate things. It puts you out there, without sounding over-zealous. You’re on the record with “like” and wanting to know more. And seriously, if you get a negative reaction to that, or even a non-committal one, consider the time you’ve saved in the long run. Again, so long as you’re clear in your interest, how long it takes to go beyond that to intimacy is still up to you.
evanstar
I believe Adam caused Lilith so much grief that she ran away. She was the original wild woman, and Adam was out of his league. God pitied him and called a do-over with Eve. Then the PR machine of the patriarchy went in to full damage control mode and have’nt stopped since.
Fun fact: Didja know the word “Lullabye” comes from a bastardization of the word Lillith Bye, which were small plaques put on kids rooms and houses in the medeaval times to ward off Lillith who would come in a “snatch” your baby (which was the early explanation of crib death)?Yeah. She got a bad rep.
Belmont yo - I completely understand what it’s like to start over in the dating pool at an advanced age. I’ll just suffice it to say that I’ve been married. Now I’m not. The people in my age group generally do have kids, mortgages, careers and baggage. You do sound as if you’re facing a bit more in the challenge department than most, but some things remain the same.
Charlottesville, if you’ve lived here any length of time or served time in any public capacity (be it a job or even a visible local organization), you’re going to have history all OVER this town. Which is why I cultivate first date places which, while nice, are not places where friends, ex’s or anyone else I know regularly hang out. Luckily, new places open all the time around here. Old, comfy places fall out of favor with the trendy crowd, who move on. Pick some places which, at least to you and your crowd, are a bit off the map. Protect them. Use them cautiously. Once you are on solid ground, then venture back together into the pool where you’ll be spotted (or, it sounds, possibly confronted).
Avoid revealing too much, too early. It’s great to be able to unload on a board such as this. SUPER great. We’re your people. You’re safe, here. I’m not saying that you need to hide anything, but there’s also no need to put it all out on the table, from the get go. And believe me, we all have things in our past (however colorful and challenging yours is) which cause us a lot of anxiety. Seriously, we all do. Once you realize that, it gets a bit easier. And the first step is accepting your own past. If you feel it’s overwhelming, well, so will the person you’re with. Realize it’s the past. It’s over and done with. What’s important is now. Be in the moment. As for continuing challenges, they will reveal themselves to your potential suitor in time, as they logically come up. No need to rush that.
As for time considerations, can’t say it enough: date locally. Seems silly and obvious, but if you have limited time, dating someone nearby is a must. Sure, you generally only have Mondays. But you might unexpectedly have the odd opening here or there. Dating locally (meaning within 15 minutes to half an hour from each other) allows a lot more flexibility for meeting on the fly. You may have more time than you think, if you are open to less structured, planned dates. The right girl is going to be interested and adventurous enough to consider this a plus!
I knew Adam couldn’t handle her, that’s why I wrote he needed a stepford wife. Thanks for the cool trivia though. Hope you saw what I wrote about your Sam S. & Jess. L. song. Anyone as smart and clever as you will be fine.
Jeez thanks y’all (thats for you D.) And grrl, I only have one observation regarding your thoughtful post…
Avoid revealing too much, too early…
I giggled because it is laughable that I would even *have* anything to reveal. Seems everyone knows everything about me already. Shit, there have even been certain anatomical observations on this very board from total strangers that I don’t see how anybody but a very few could know. Thats why I could care less about the anonymity aspect of this site. Aint no point in it for me really.
Once you have been introduced as “This is my ex-girlfriend’s ex-husband and his ex-girlfriend is my current girlfriend’s boss” (true story) you pretty much get a fine jade veneer. Ah well. Its just another thing.
yo, I like the transparency. I tend to gravitate to people with interesting pasts, “survivors,” for friends and otherwise. It’s not what you’ve been through, it’s who you turn into as a result of it all. A lot of people like me are out there!
I always had a harder time meeting new female friends than potential boyfriends… what can I say, the lure of attraction and the social convention of flirting makes it easier to talk to strangers of the opposite sex (IMHO). Anyone else out their struggle with “friend dating”?
Lys,
You’re right on the money about friend dating. Every time it seems I find one or two new friends, they up and move for job or school or spouse’s job or school. The missus and I also find it tough to find “couple friends” where both members of the couple are people we can stand. Usually it happens that one half is a blast and the other is a drag. Where do kidless couples make new couple friends in this town?
I’m pretty good on girlfriends, but we go through phases of closeness, frequency of seeing each other, etc. I also had more girl friends and girl friends I was closer to before Charlottesville. Lys, I agree that it’s easier to date and befriend men than befriend women. I’m not shy, as we know. I start out with a lunch date or after-work cocktails. But I’ve been rejected by two groups of women here, and not in nice ways by one, either. It’s going to happen.
Count me in on it being easier to meet/date/befriend guys than to find women for friendships, in this town. Granted, my interests aren’t terribly girly. But like you, lilith, I’ve had more female friends in every other town in which I’ve lived. Most of my close friends are guys, at this point. Probably, my interests just naturally put me in contact with more men than women. Dunno. But I do know that once you’re out of college, you lose a lot of natural structure for meeting people your own age, with similar interests. The older you get, the harder it gets. Particularly if you have a challenging career, sucking up a lot of your time. If you don’t meet people at work, it’s really hard to do so, otherwise.
Couple friends can be a disaster. We have several we love, but they keep breeding so we are passively shopping for shinny new ones (I know it’s selfish but sometimes you want to go out to eat after 7 PM, regardless of what they told the babysitter).
Here are the major pitfalls we run into:
1) Liking the New Partner - We are friends with A, who now starts dating/marries B. B is great, but neither my husband or I are close to her, so while we do everything like couple friends, we’re really just friends with A. B is an accessory friend (i.e. we’ll hang out with A if B is out of town, but never the other way around). This one is pretty tolerable and pretty common for everyone, I assume.
2) The Lame-O - We meet A and B as a couple and one of them is totally lame, but the other is cool and one (or both) of us wants to hang out with them just to get to hang out with the cool one. Resentment towards the uncool one always occurs along the lines of “I can’t believe she married him” or “we’d hang out with them all the time if he wasn’t so boring.” This can be avoided if one of us clearly claim the cool one as ours and we call off couple activities, but only if the Lame-O doesn’t insist on always doing everything as a couple.
3) The Mismatch - We meet A and B as a couple. Hubby gets along well with A, I get along well with B, but hubby is annoyed by B. It’s a nonstarter - B can’t just be my friend now because our husbands get along (making couple time suggestions unavoidable), but my husband can’t stand to be around her so she defacto turns into the Lame-O. Only tolerable if multiple couples are going somewhere, so hubby can avoid B.
4) Sensitive Information – In my experience, it just doesn’t happen that she’s your best friend and he’s hubby’s best friend. There is a natural distance between couple friends, namely, you can’t say anything to one member of the couple you wouldn’t want the other to know. If you met as couple friends, your first loyalty is to your partner, which means you’ll run back to your spouse after Janie tells you she and Bob are having problems, and you probably wouldn’t do that if you were only friends with Janie. This means you can’t complain about your relationship to your couple friends, and isn’t that what most of us really talk about with our closest friends? It’s a delicate line, so beware.
That being said, every marriage I’ve seen fail has had a distinct lack of couple friends, so while it sucks finding them, you’ll kill each other if you don’t have people you can both hang out with.
so, reading all this stuff, would anyone be interested in being a featured personal ad on our site? we would put up your picture, give you a questionaire, and see what happens? it could be pretty funny cause we could also have people commenting about waht they dont like.. at least you would get honest responses!
Nice topic Lillith. And I’m really enjoying reading all the comments, cool discussion. That’s all, can’t add much that hasn’t already been said.
Except this question: so, you go on the first date, but the other person likes you more than you like him/her and wants to get together again. How do you say no? The “I just want to be friends” line? I find it really, really difficult to do that face-to-face and much easier via phone or email (lame, I know.) But it’s just soooooooooo awkward. Especially if the person is nice, but just not for you. I really suck at the “thanks, but no thanks” thing and always end up feeling really bad, so I end up avoiding “real” dates just so I won’t have to be faced with that.
The other person probably finds that easier via phone or email as well. It’s hard to look someone in the eye and act “ok” when receiving that speech.
Whatever you say, though, avoid the whole “love you like a brother” line. What that says to me is “You’re amazing, wonderful, but physically repulsive”. I’ve got more “sisters” than the Pope…
ThatGrrl’s comments show wisdom way beyond her years. Impressive.
Why bother Thor? There are already too many places to post personal ads. What people are writing here are just the usual gripes. We like to think Charlottesville is different than any other city in this respect, but who are we kidding? It is difficult no matter where you live. So let the match, jdate, eharmany, etc… have the personals. Let Cvillain simply be the place for gossip.
ya but it would be a “let’s get this guy/girl a date” feature .. and of course we would require follow ups and post-date information. maybe we could swing free dinner from one of our famed restaurants as a sponsor?
Lys, since we work in the same place and are both looking for couples friends, we should probably meet and discuss making a friend connection!
We should - I’m in office 462 so swing by sometime (although I won’t be around much longer today - need to hit the bank before they close).
And no sneeking up to my office to see who I am and not making yourself known!
That’s what the Hook used to do in that long forgotten column (so long ago I have forgotten its name). It was a fun column at first, but then it got too pretentious with the columnist’s views interspersed throughout the piece.
I think The Hook column actually did result in one wedding, and they invited the columnist… I believe it was simply call The Hook-up, or maybe that’s what they used to call their personals section.
im not sure why this has gone unsaid for so long on here, but ladies: most guys absolutely love it when you initiate the dating. grow some ovaries and mix it up a bit!
Blind Date Challenge! I remember that, Horatio. Actually, I let them set me up, once. DISASTER. But it made for entertaining reading. Some dates are just soooo awful that they come back around to funny, if you keep a sense of humor.
Aw, shucks Dharmaguy. Thanks for presuming (a) wisdom and (b) that I’m young. I’m closer to belmont yo’s age. Which I love. No one could pay me to be 20 again. Having a ton more fun now that I know more about who I am, what I want and what’s actually important in life.
after posting that, a little research revealed that TOMORROW IS SADIE HAWKINS DAY. (girls ask the guys, for once)
honest to god. its even on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadie_Hawkins_Day
grow some ovaries.. haha
indie dork is right. Take matters into your own hands, girls. If nothing else, you’ll learn how difficult it is for the guys to be expected to always be the ones putting themselves out there. Always having to make the first move, and risk rejection, ain’t easy. If they can do it, so can we. Sadie Hawkins Day is a delightfully kitschy and retro reason to give it a try!
Thor - I think it’s a fun idea! To avoid comparisons to the “Hook-up”, you might want to customize it. Perhaps a cvillain chosen at random actually gets to make up the date! For instance, I would choose:
-Dinner at Saigon Cafe
-Drinks at Blue Moon
-Hop on one of those bicycle rickshaws to the corner(anyone here ridden in one of those?)
-Man Man show at Satellite Ballrom(I know, I’m shameless)
-If date goes well, post-show drinks at the Bistro if hilarious monday night Nice Jenkins bartender has decided to keep the bar open.
That’s sounds like a pretty damn good date to me…
In honor of Sadie Hawkins day, and the fact that I’m chained to my desk with production, Lys, you can find me down at WS 221. I don’t rate a full-fledged office here!
Woops, I mean “Blind Date Challenge”, and not “The Hook-up”.
Dharma, you nailed it. ThatGrrl, your comments on dating have been very eloquent and fun to read. I also concur with the posts by Lys, et al. about your frustrations in establishing new friends in C’ville post-college, mid-career (really no different than other cities I’ve lived in).
To steer the topic back to dating, though, I am interested in how others besides Samantha have handled that post-date conversation where you break the bad news to someone with romantic interests. It’s easy to blow off an asshat, but much harder if your date is genuinely nice and you’re not averse to pursuing a friendship. Is there a way to maintain a relationship if s/he is someone interesting and worth cultivating as a social contact? Truthfully, I’ve been guilty of severing such relationships cleanly when given the option - maybe because we don’t want reminders of unrequited feelings. Seems a pity, though.
I’m sure this isn’t an isolated problem, but it really does seem like Charlottesville harbors a suspicious (I don’t even know what you call it . . . ) thing (that’s descriptive enough) whereby the men and women here dance around a bizarre competition with one another. Not the women vs. women catfight bit, but that the pretenses here often get the best of themselves.
Seems like that often precludes the makings of a beautiful . . . friendship. Hookup. Lovefest. Whatever.
mintyfresh: Yes. And I encourage men and women to tell the interested party, because to lead someone on is entirely selfish and hurtful. If the interested friend can’t be friends with you on your terms, you have to let them go. Enjoying the flattery and incoming affection while your interested friend remains hopeful is just cruel. Have I done it? Yes, and I’ve lost more friends this way than by being honest about not reciprocating the feelings. Also, have I told a friend I’m not interested and they still remain hopeful? Yes. It’s a shame. Have I been rejected? YES! And we can stay amiable, but never close.
What do I say if I’m not interested? The truth. The chemistry isn’t there, and I wish it was. If you can still be just friends, awesome. If not, I get it.
What not to say?
“You’re too good for me” or “I don’t deserve you.” It’s insulting. They want to be with you.
“I just need some time to be alone.” Again, insulting. As soon as you meet someone you like, you’ll stop wanting to be alone, and they’ll know it.
“I don’t think we’re compatible.” Don’t make it open for discussion! I’ve had someone try to prove we’re compatible. You don’t want to be in the position of criticizing the other person or suggesting they could change for you.
Oh, and I was loving the mythology earlier. Anyone ever see the movie “Lilith”? I think Jean Seberg is one of the most beautiful actresses ever, but she plays a real troublemaker!
Thanks, Minty! And I’ve been on both sides of the “oops, how about being friends?” conversation. Personally, I like my rejections served straight up, without too much ambiguity. Within ambiguity lies its evil twin: false hope. I don’t like it to become a discussion of the “why’s” behind the fact that it just isn’t working on one side. The implication is that the reasons supporting the decision might be mere obstacles to be overcome. Which is generally how it becomes ambiguous. One side is trying to mitigate hurt, while the other actually believes knowing why it didn’t work will help. It. Never. Helps.
Chalk it up to experience. In the end, things just grew in different ways for each person. And seriously: why would anyone want to be with a person who is anything less than elated to be in a relationship with you? Consider it an opportunity to find the RIGHT person. Count your blessings that you haven’t wasted more time hoping for the impossible. And if you can, consider this: if you liked someone enough to date him or her, hopefully there is a way to salvage a friendship. Probably not right away, but in time. This person knows you. You have things in common. You laughed at the same silly stuff. That could be the makings of a true friendship. Don’t throw it away, unless the other party is opposed to continued contact (stalking isn’t pretty, people). If both parties are willing, in time, you might be surprised by what a cool friendship can develop from a previous dating relationship.
As for first date, end of the evening “thanks, but I don’t believe this will work” situations, I tend to want those pretty straight up, as well. Nothing worse than leaving what you think was a GREAT date, only to have the other party never call again. Or, to have them dodge your calls after leaving the impression that they really wanted to hear from you. Sure, it’s hard. But it’s a lot better to know where you stand. Naturally, you want to be polite about this. “You’re a great guy/girl and I truly appreciate your taking the time to spend the evening with me. It means a lot! I’d like to see you again, but as a friend. If you can’t do that, or would rather not, I understand. But I hope you’d consider it.” Leaving the power in the other party’s hands kind of helps cut the disappointment and give them back control. YMMV, but that’s how I handle it.
Dang, lilith, you said just about exactly what I was writing, while I was writing it! Yup, the truth hurts. But truth, given kindly, is actually WAY better than false hope.
My girlfriend and I had decided the dining establishment of our first date with one of those paper fortune teller things you flip with your fingers. She brought the paper and I brought the pen and wrote the restaurant options. It was definitely the most creative way I’ve ever come up with to pick a place to go out.
Hooo ha ha!!!!
at the end of the day it all comes down to who anonymously posted the best comment on the blog post that will one day soon be shuffled into the archives of things never to be read again. that award goes to commenter 57. succinct AND poignant!
4:15 and been drinkin maybe I’d beytter post tomorrow instead?
I think my 81 comment record may be in danger, but not helpin myself out by poiny\ting it out. lilith, if you need to do research for parts 2 and 3 you know where to find me. I like the picture you found for this thread. Do we call them “butterflies” because the emotions we feel are of such ethereal gossamer as to be compared only to butterfly wings? I’d like to think that all the first dates I’ve had are simply going to prepare me for the one that really matters, but that one won’t care how prepared I am to meet her, we’ll meet, and everything else will be secondary. Am I right? I hope so. going to bed, nighty night
“the emotions we feel are such ethereal gossamer…”
hahaha great drunk post.
see ya tonight…
Did I drunkenly kill a good thread? Or were my comments ‘post’mortem?
[…] the first part, “The first date,” and the fascinating discussion that came of it, by clicking on this link. In the third comment, Tim made the point that the first date isn’t nearly as bad as the […]
Oh my god, this article made me think of a dating horror story — once I took a girl out to a nice restaurant and the waitress ended up being an ex-girlfriend! Not just any ex-girlfriend, mind you…this was the ex from hell. We ended up having to leave the restaurant and go somewhere else!
Actual thought when I read this: “Wait… think… has a guy I’ve dated ever sat in my section with a cute new girl then disappeared?” After going through the mental Rolodex for more than a full minute, the answer is “Doubt it.” Dating part 3: how to make exes respond favorably to running into you in a city as small as Charlottesville.
[…] Part 1. Part 2. […]
[…] The first date [934 views] […]
I’ve never had to give the “we’re not going on a 2nd date” speech. My pattern is that I almost always date people I already know. So I already know if I like them or not. Or…one night stands. Yeuh! But what about the morning after? I just don’t work too hard at communicating with them. But I like everybody, so I end up not really rejecting anybody. I don’t burn any bridges.
What are you doing this weekend?
Sorry if I beat you to it, Oy.
haha…um…I want to but I have to write a paper, sorry. I know the semester hasn’t started, but I want to get a head start so I don’t fall behind in my research. Get some extra hours in the lab.
See how that works? You walk away thinking I don’t have time for anybody. So you don’t feel rejected.
*bows*
*clapping
*drifting slowly to the scrap-heap while thinking “boy that girl’s got a tough life”*
Oh well, I wouldn’t want to see my unbroken streak of rejection end
caroline?!? I though we were on the same side, even if we don’t play for the same team?
That myspace scares me. It’s the ass quote and the brown teeth I think.
hip! I wasn’t clapping at your rejection, but the graceful rejection grape came up with was good…..that wasn’t for you honey, we ARe on the same side. You’re my boyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeee.
Who has brown teeth?
oh, I gotcha nanigans….. Ima little slow tonight *wink
that page scared me. Silm where are you?
nanigans, are you her new myspace stalker? I didn’t see that one coming….
Er no. It’s her freaking link. Click on the green. Duh.
I know, I know… I saw that myspace months ago, I just didn’t see you throwing the equivalent* of strawberry-jello-wrestling at her
*not really at all equivalent.
Rejection is rejection is rejection. I know this is the easy way out, but I’d rather know where I stand then keep hearing excuses. Yes, I eventually get the hint, but how many “too busy”s should a guy accept before he knows the girl isn’t interested? Does “too busy” always mean, “I’d love to, but I’d rather die than spend another minute talking to you”?
holy shit…I forgot how nasty my MySpace is. Wow I was in a good mood when I made that. I musta been high. I have severely neglected my myspace. It’s too much work! I want everyone to email me in one place instead of having to check email AND myspace AND facebook. Just…gawd…everyone please know that my myspace page is supposed to be me in my rawest state. Titrated to a nugget of pure Freudian anality.
Brown teeth? My teeth aren’t brown.
H-D: huh?
did somebody wrestle in strawberry jello?
hot.
80 brutus, One ‘too busy’ should be enough, but sometimes I need a little negative re-inforcement. If she says “I’m too busy” to Friday night without suggesting maybe something fun on Saturday or next weekend, then the ball’s in her court and you can let it rest. Sucks that you don’t get to know whether its scheduling or lack of interest, but thats a woman’s prerogative.
Ooops, I have you confused with someone else. And yes. hot. so hot.
Really impressed with the traffic here at this time of night. Usually its me, caroline and Silmo talking about non-sense
Brutus–I’d love it if people took just 1 “too busy” as enough to stay away. I actually am sometimes too busy to date. I know that relationships (1 or a series) take time to do right, and new relationships can take more time than existing ones. Just give me your number and I’ll call you when the semester’s over.
Yet another reason why the 25-35 singles scene isn’t so vibrant: the grad students who make up a big chunk of it don’t have any free time. Or at least any guilt-free free time. You gotta be cool with me making out with you at the department mixer then not calling you until 2 weeks later at 2am saying “if I read one more chart I’m gonna pull a Jens Soering. Get over here and fuck me.”
*ahhhemm* do a lot of guys have a problem with that scenario?
Learned this last year: when someone is “too busy ” to hang out with you, they don’t really want to hang out with you. Also, don’t date hot guys from NoVa. They are “too busy” screwing 20 year olds.
h-d: realistically, yes.
It’s 11:57 right now. How would you feel if some past paramour called you right now and tried to arrange an immediate date? You’d be like “whaaa? I’m already in bed and I gotta get up in 6 hours to go to work. Why can’t you come over here? And why haven’t you returned my emails?”
Most people don’t like to be treated like that unless that kinda arrangement has been pre-arranged. Which takes time. Precious time. So little of it.
I was just being ever so slightly sarcastic, I don’t know how one wanders into a situation like that, I’ve never been there… its off the map for me.
doofus, this is not a sarcastic question: have you ever dipped into the local pool of delectable women grad students?
I know the above may sound like a sarcastic rhetorical in response to you, but it’s not. I wanna tangent a bit. Being a grad student and seeing the absolutely glorious pile of young, single (and lonely, but don’t tell anyone) women that is the grad student population of UVA, I now wonder if any of the readers regularly dip into that majestic Llyn Llyw.
Sounds like it’s time for another party.
Grad students totally have time. Unless you are in your residency or something, you have time to go out and meet people.
lilith, can I dip into that?
I’m working on another cool party idea…
A graduate student buffet?
LaGrape, I have, but its been a while. I dated an Art History grad student a few years ago, and a few others before that, but I don’t know where they (single, lonely, delectable) hang out anymore. I’m certainly open to suggestions…
Where the Grad Students are at:
1. THE LIBRARY
2. MySpace
3. Match.com
4. Facebook
5. volunteer organizations
DEFINITELY another party!!! Someone talk to the Box guys! And you know where else has a good set-up for parties? Cassis. Maybe we could have a cinnamon eating competition and the roman candle thing. HOT. Okay.
Back to lurking again. Bye bye.
i know i am new here, and this topic is olld. unfortunately, my post would be relegated to the “old” category as i have been way to busy treading water or believeing in first dates. or for that matter, “dates”…
but many years ago i had a string of dates- about a week, and i had a great time. i would have treauserd thenm more if i’da known that 7 years later i would find myself immorializing them..
but it was totally casual. and interesting and uncontrived.
having come from other places- i didn’t find it remarkable,merely refreshing and lovely.
well… it quickly ended, though the friendship did not.
i went on my merry way and always thought well of and was glad to see that guy.
so i guess that was good. i could be wrong.
(oops- does this mean you all now at least, i might be a female?)
wait- do you know who i am;)
hint. i’m a tiny bit sarcastic and a lot wanna get paid for stand-up-cause trust me with years of experience in retail, substitute teaching, waiting tables and life in general- i think i got some material.
and i tend to wear my heart on my sleeve.(except when i am hiding it)…