Al Groh, recently named ACC’s coach of the year, got a year contract extension for UVA football. Just in case you didn’t know that means that UVA football will pay him over $1.7 Million in 2008. For what I ask?
(CAVEAT: I’m not a football know it all)
Let’s take a quick look at the stats from this season:
9/1 @ Wyoming 2:00 (Versus) (L) 3-23
9/8 Duke 12:00 (LFS/Raycom) (W) 24-13
9/15 @ North Carolina 12:00 (W) 22-20
9/22 Georgia Tech 12:00 (W) 28-23
9/29 Pittsburgh 7:00 (W) 44-14
10/6 @ Middle Tenn. St. (W) 23-21
10/13 Connecticut 3:30 (W) 17-16
10/20 @ Maryland 8:00 (W) 18-17
10/27 @ N.C. State 4:30 (L) 24-29
11/3 Wake Forest 12:00 (W) 17-16
11/10 @ Miami 7:15 (W) 48-0
11/24 Virginia Tech (L) 21-33
Despite the fact that we had the easiest season ever, we barely beat teams we should have crushed. Why weren’t more games like Miami? Why, when Virginia Tech comes here do they completely outplay us? Groh, last season you were 5-7 and were pummeled by decent teams. Good thing FSU wasn’t on our roster this year.
I’m not sure if it’s due to lack of recruiting, a traditional run run run the ball playing style, ACC’s mistaken award, or what, but if Virginia football wants to get better (and make me happier), then maybe it’s a good idea to spend those millions elsewhere.
I know a lot of alums complain about Groh. They say he’s a nice person, but football is about kicking some serious ass. Groh needs to go back to school to figure things out.
Thoughts, football aficionados?
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Tagged as: Charlottesville, College, Questions, Traditions, University of Virginia, UVA
Is that a yes/no question? Yes.
Worst cvillain thread ever.
Anyone with any appreciation for Virginia’s football history ), and any understanding of their place in the college football world, knows the whole premise of this thread is absurd. On many levels. Groh is not the most endearing guy, and he’s made some mistakes, but firing the ACC coach of the year is not what Virginia should do, EVER. If we did fire him, how do you think the candidates we would go after would view the school and the job, if we had just fired a coach after a 9 (or 10) win season? The question is completely removed from reality and any reasonable expecations fans should have.
It’s not going to happen.
Crud - I think a lot of people would disagree with you on that one. Reasonable fans look beyond fluke wins and one good season. Most people I talk to do not like how Groh runs VA football. Look at our season. Who was an evenly matched team besides VT?
Most people I talk to are fine with Groh. Had this been a 5 win season, it’d be another story, but there’s apparently a sense that he’s turned a corner, and has a better sense of how to run the program. UVa will never be Michigan and will likely never compete for a national championship, but a 9 win schedule is nothing to sniff at.
Most people who think that way don’t understand football. I am not a big groh supporter, and I am sympathetic to “how he runs va football” not being ideal, but he has won 9 games and I don’t buy the “fluke wins” argument at all. Who was evenly matched? I think anyone would tell you that athletically Miami is far superior to Virginia–and if there was a fluke this year, that game was it. Georgia Tech is at least as talented, Carolina recruits the same kind of kids, Wake went to the Orange Bowl last year and UConn won 10 games.
It pisses me off to no end we can’t beat VT, but we shouldn’t fire the guy or even think about it while we are winning 9 games. And don’t forget he’s wond 9 games a time before, 8 games twice and 7 once. 2 really bad years out of 7, with one being his first year on the job. We have a chance to be very good next year. Dave is right, we are not Michigan and never will be. fAns who think Virginia should fire its coach after 9 wins just don’t get who we are.
Crud - Can you direct us to the homogeneous “get who we are UVA fans?†Do they mold them out of clay.. or is it plastic and ceramic from an assembly line?
If you don’t think VA can be big football, then I assume the marching band, sea of orange, auction seat tickets mean nothing to you. The changes were made to be more like big football. Every school wants to be big in the football department because football brings in money, period. Whether or not our identity lives up to it, that’s something we’ll have to wait for… post-Groh.
I think he’s a decent coach and a fine representative for UVA, but not at $2,000,000 per year, which is where he is this year, once you factor in his coach of the year, bowl appearance (and possible victory) and other bonuses. Plus, his contract has an automatic rollover adding a year, COLA provision at 5% annually, plus all the other goodies coaches get (country club, courtesy Mercedes, etc.). I think he was fine for UVA when he was making half that amount, but when he and his agent put UVA over their knee with the new contract a couple of years ago, he raised the stakes for what people want to see, and I think this year is the minimum level of success for what people want to see as far as on-the-field production goes. But keep losing to Virginia Tech, and look bad doing it as in 2005 and 2006, and all bets are off.
As as start, I would say you are one of them. But don’t feel bad, you can find many, many people with similar sentiments on the football message board of thesabre.com .
Do some research on Virginia’s football history–bowl games, bowl wins, New Years games, ACC championships, Top 10 finishes, etc. You won’t need to compare that to the really big time programs like Michigan, TExas, Miami or USC—just compare it to 2nd or 3rd tier powers like Virginia Tech, Georgia, or even Clemson.
The salary, sea of orange, bigger stadium–that’s all just to maintain status quo. It’s what you to pay to play. We’re not any better in terms of that stuff than North Carolina, Maryland, or Virginia Tech—our 3 closest rivals in terms of proximity and recruiting.
Can we do better? Would I like to see us do better? Sure. But that’s a drastic difference than suggesting a school like Virginia bails on a coach with 9 wins and 5 bowl games in 7 years. He has dramatically outperformed the historical norms and you could even have a conversation that he has improved upon what George Welsh built.
I would be perfectly content to see U.Va.’s football program significantly downsized. I really enjoy football, but when I was a student at the U., I found its football culture annoying and off-putting. Now as an alum who lives in C-ville, even more so. But, I recognize that such a downsizing will never happen, and U.Va.’s stuck forever pulling itself in two directions (big academic vs. big athletic).
I guess I’ll go sulk in the corner and read Beer and Circus.
Try Modern Drunkard magazine.
ACC Coach of The Year, but ranked as worst college coache by a SI writer. How does that work? I didn’t like him at the beginning of the year nor in years past, and barely squeaking by teams we should have thumped didn’t improve my opinion.
Beer and Circus is the latest anti big-time-college-athletics book from Murray Sperber, professor emeritus (?) of English at Indiana University and a vocal critic of Major College Sports. Most excellent reference by Stanley, and he’s right, the U is pulled in two directions which are at best complementary ( see Stanford, Berkeley, Michigan), and at worst, diametrically opposed (Florida State, Baylor).
i have no problem with uva’s team hovering around mediocrity (say what you want about the impressive record this year, the team is still only slightly above average).
however, if this is the level of football the school is going to get, they are definitely overpaying.
http://www.dopke.com/Archives_Pages/Coaching_Changes/DIACoachesComp2006.htm
it’s a shame that the football team overshadows the other much more successful teams at the school, but i understand that is where the interest lies.
Man, I finally feel vindicated for defending Groh all these years and then I see this. Most of the points I would make have been covered already, so I’ll just write this: Enjoy the ride, it’s rare we get to root for a fun team to watch around here.
I tend to think that Crud buster understands the fundamental problem. There simply is no real culture for football at UVA.
Go to a game, and you can see the overall lack of understanding of the game itself (You don’t do “the wave” when your team is on offense, kids). Most criticisms of the coaching speak more to a lack of understanding on the part of fans (WINNING several 1-point games may be a sign of playing over your head, rather than under your potential).
No matter though, the “diehard” fans will miss most of the first and third quarters in favor of social obligations. The idea that a marching band or orange shirts have any real bearing is an merely indication of the problem.
Talk to students and alums, and you hear a striking theme of disdain for the “athletes”. The sense that the players “don’t belong” pervades most discussions of football. Athletes get that, and most of the better ones will naturally seek an environment more conducive to football success.
In the grand scheme of things, none of this may be a problem. Certainly UVA has built quite a reputation without football being a major consideration.
Just keep these issues in mind when weighing the success of Al Groh.
I see what you are saying, and agree on some of your points. I will say though that if beating UNC, Mid. Tenn. St., and UCONN (who became a D1A team just a few years ago) by a combined 5 points is an indication that the team might be playing over its head, that is quite a problem in itself, seeing as how Groh, at least during his first few years, had recruiting classes ranked in the top 15-25 most of the time.
My memory is failing me somewhat, but I know UVA had a stretch of a few years with highly regarded recruiting classes under Groh, and once all of Walsh’s players were cycled out and Groh was playing solely with his own (and highly regarded) players, there was no noticeable improvement.
But I agree that UVA does not have the culture to support a great football team, and I think that is what makes this all the more frustrating. Every year there is more money spent and more posturing and it will inevitably be all for not. The best players, for the most part, are not going to come play here. The atmosphere isn’t great, the admissions requirements (while greatly relaxed) are a little tougher, and no matter how many tutors you have standing over your shoulder essentially writing your paper for you, there is still no Criminal Justice major or Football 101 classes.
So yea, basically UVA is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I think 9-3, 10-3 and a trip to the Champs Sports Bowl is about the best one can expect, which is fine, but why pay so much for it in the process?
I’m with you stanley. it pisses me off to no end how much money, how many hundreds of millions of dollars, has been wasted on the football program. whenever i give money to the university, and i do every year, i specifically state it is not to be used for the athletic dept.
i was there for welsh’s 2-9 first season, and i can tell you we had as much fun at those games as when we went 8-2 a few years later.
SCREW UVA FOOTBALL. I’m an alum, and I’ve still never cared a half-fart. The teams have always been mediocre, and yet the University keeps dumping piles of cash on them. You can’t add a one-bedroom addition to your house in town without adding additional parking, and yet, somehow the 600 lb. canary that is Wahoo-Wah gets to add, what, 10,000 new seats to the stadium and 1000 new parking spots. Assholes! Meanwhile, the entire city added bike lanes over 10 years ago, and they still don’t have bike lanes in the most heavily bicycle-trafficed area of town: right around the stadium.
I’m sick of it! Screw a bunch of Republicans standing around drinking in strangers’ yards at 9am on Saturday mornings. Wholesome entertainment my ass.
You know, Thomas Jefferson was only really proud of one accomplishment in his career: the establishment of a free university. But now, I guess its fitting that tuitions keep going up to support the adolescent fixation of a bunch of drunks. Who gives a shit.
For the record, I’m not against athletes or adolescent fixations, or drunks. It’s just a wicked combo.
Does anyone else find it disgusting that the football coach earns more than a world-class university’s president (please correct me if I’m wrong)? Look, I recognize that people enjoy football…I don’t understand it, but I can accept it nonetheless.
But really, when you think about it, UVA football is mediocre and will probably never get past that level given the school’s (rightful) emphasis on academic quality. This culture of sports exaltation is bizarre, especially at the college level. Groh facilitates our entertainment, and brings in alumni dollars. I know the fundraising is important. Other than that, he is essentially unproductive. How about the profs and administrators who turn out successful business leaders, political types, etc. who donate that money in the first place and actually contribute to the world following graduation?
Fire Groh? I don’t care. But to pay him such an obscene salary is disgusting. Endemic of college sports, I suppose.
“Endemic of college sports, I suppose.”
as a former college athlete myself, i must amend that to “Endemic of college [football and usually basketball], I suppose.”
They should fire Groh and replace the lost alumni income by kidnapping asian engineering students and holding them for ransom.
Ah. Good call. Track, wrestling, swimming, cross country always get the shaft.
byo - even better, why don’t they start a kidnapping major and if students are successful with their thesis (i.e. kidnapping actually takes place), then the professor splits a commission with the school for educating that student?
A friend of mine has been a UVa employee for 30 years. Every year he got dibs on season tickets. His seats moved closer to the field every time somebody in his section died. Next year, he’s told he’s has to cough up a $6200 donation for the privilege of buying his ($250?) season tickets. And he still might not get them. Thirty years of service and support yielded a “screw you” from the athletics department.
Corporate sponsors are gonna buy up all those tickets and those seats will be empty except for the 2 or 3 “big games” of every season.
But, whatever it takes to go all NASCAR with UVa football, I guess…
Joe Paterno makes $500,000 a year. Oklahoma, Ohio State, Florida and South Carolina (Spurrier) coaches make upwards of 2 million. Among the highest paid coaches in the game. Alabama coach is the top guy in the game at 4 million. I should preface this by saying don’t give a flying fuck about college ball nor do I care about anyone’s salary other than my own.
Really…Al Groh makes that much more than Paterno. It’s a tiny insignificant little college team in a town that everyone thinks is in North Carolina. Just sayin. Those alumni must be pouring in those bucks. Need to get my hands on some of that.
I have nothing substantial to add to this, except, college (”amateur”) athletics is a misnomer. It ain’t about sports, it’s about money.
Tiki Barber was on Project Runway last night.
The end.
Just woke up after passing out on the couch watching TV…here’s my 2 cents.
Every year people start hopping on the Groh hate train, and (almost) every year, he pulls out a good season; see crudbusters comment above. This season, we won an NCAA record games by 2 points or less. There may have been a lot of close calls, but we always found a way to win. Thats more than just flukes. That is Groh earning his paycheck. He is a great part of the UVA community and understands it, which is a great assest to have in a coach. He cares about more than just wins and losses. He’s revived interest in our program and brought it back to annual respectability. He even managed to singlehandedly usher in the era of the “Sea of Orange” (although I do retain some bitterness that this has led to the decline of the shirt and tie).
In the Division I Bowl Subdivision, there are 119 teams. We have spent most of the year (and should finish it) in the top 25. I’d say we’re doing pretty well. Check out this article that ranks the BCS top 25 by graduation rates…a sort of Academic BCS: http://www.newamerica.net/blogs/education_policy/2007/11/academic_bowl_championship_series. We ranks 5th. Players may be underperforming academically compared to the rest of the school, but we are still the 5th best…not too shabby. So we are managing to be a highly rated school both academically and athletically (lets not forget our basketball team’s ACC championship and the slew of championships in recent years in lacrosse, soccer, swimming, baseball, tennis). I’d rather be that than a football powerhouse with no academics or other successful sports.
And while you may think that football is a big money drain, it is in fact the opposite. Think about all the money people spend to come to games. Lets say 15,000 students come to each game. With an average attendance of 60,000, that means 45,000 people are buying tickets for the game. As stated above, many are making big donations to even have the privilege of buying a ticket. They pay for UVA paraphernalia, hotel rooms, gas, meals at many of the places you work at. Football bring a lot of money into the local economy. And the national recognition we get raises our profile, which in turn gets UVA more applicants and better applicants from across the country. Now they can have more students, yet still be more selective, and bring more money to the school. This raises the value of your degree even after you have graduated. The school also receives money for being on TV, for going to bowl games. The University may spend a lot on the stadium and staff, but they can’t spend it on the players themselves and they receive all that money back (and so do many of you). And keep in mind, football also provides many players with a chance to go to a top tier university for free; thats a pretty nice reward for them and a great service the school can provide to young men.
We can also top this off with the unity that something like football provides the UVA community. It’s something we can all rally around. And it is a damn good time (despite what you older snobby cranky Cvillains may say).
If there is one fault of Groh, its that despite all that he has done, he is a little less successful than he should be. UVA routinely sends excellent players to the NFL, including several first rounders who have gone on to be successful. Heath Miller, D’Brickishaw Ferguson, and Matt Schaub among others, with Chris Long looking to be joining those ranks soon. With that kind of talent taking the field, we should have been even better than we were. But you know what, we have still done very well, and for that, I think we should all be thanking Groh.
Tim, nice! You offer a more factual analysis than I would have, but I agree with you that the entire university benefits when a football program prospers. Remember when Northwestern went to the Rose Bowl in 1996? Applications increased by about 40%, and their previously moribund alumni came out of the woodwork in numbers, including many donors. As long as that influx of giving is distributed to sports besides football and basketball (and hopefully the educational element as well), I think there is a return on investment. $2 million/per seems pretty freakin’ excessive, but if the ‘Hoos had played in a BCS bowl or the ACC championship I doubt many would begrudge Coach Groh. That’s the going market rate these days.
Late to the party, as usual. Look, UVa does not want to be the University of Chicago or Duke. For whatever reasons, the upper levels of the administration have rejected that quirky path (witness the demise of the Pep Band, which I personally hail–a more narcissistic bunch of half-assed musicians I’ve never heard). They are pursuing big-time athletics success, including football. It’s kind of a doomed enterprise, I think, because the simultaneous commitment to academics is going to prevent UVa from snagging the most desirable recruits. I don’t know that any other football coach alive could do much better than Groh has done given the constraints (high academic standards, largely apathetic student/fan base) under which he’s operating.
Then, there’s the fact that, if you actually talk to the man or have some contact with him beyond just listening to him on the radio following a game, you’d know he’s a decent man who cares about his players and is trying to figure out how to make this whole thing work (big-time football success in a UVa context).
Now the salary is hardly his fault–it’s what the administration is willing to pay. I think if he’d had another 5-7 season, he’d be fair game for firing, but honestly, 9-3? Last year’s team would have lost all those close games. We didn’t graduate that many guys from last year–this year’s team was essentially the same. It constitutes progress that a team that choked and could not figure out how to win last year, this year won those games.