Should Charlottesville Restaurants Ban Smoking
Governor Tim Kaine proposed a statewide smoking ban yesterday, writes Tasha Kates in the Daily Progress [story]. Given that I learned about tobacco in Virginia history before I was old enough to be able to see over a store counter, I think the lobbyists are going to tell Kaine to butt out.
Seasonal and social smoker though I am, I’m actually not opposed to it at all. Anyone who’s lived in a city with a smoking ban can appreciate how disgusting it is to leave a bar with Marlboro hairspray. Also, what our country pays out in insurance and public health care for treatment of preventable diseases and conditions is obscene.
What d’you say? Listen to the podcast of the press conference too.
Popularity: 5% [?]
Tagged as: Government, Virginia
While I was quoted in the daily progress article about this today, one of my more astute comments (as I am prone to astute comments), was left out. Restaurants that currently do not allow smoking are the only businesses that will truly be hurt by a state-wide smoking ban. Isn’t capitalism (in this case) working?
I’m a non-smoker myself, and more often than not will avoid bars that will soak my clothes in stale cigarette muck. I have such a huge problem with the smoking ban, though– it just takes government intervention too far, IMHO. People who want to avoid second-hand smoke, or smelling bad, or weepy eyes (or whatever it is that encourages the ban in the first place) should do just that– -avoid- it. Boo-hoo, go to another bar; there are plenty of fine establishments to patronize that are non-smoking. I would prefer ‘Marlboro hairspray’ to the government deciding what is good for me and my health, let alone its feeling entitled to legislate something so personal and simple as smoking.
I’ve lived in plenty of cities where smoking was banned and I never heard people complaining after smoking was banned. Sure bars get up in arms about smoking being banned, but all the smokers happily go outside and actually have an easier time meeting sexy significant others.
In fact, I am (like most people I think) more inclined to go out when I don’t reek of smoke.
Smoke = dirtier, worse hangover, less sexy. I have an opinion on this one, but banning smoking gets more people laid and makes more people happy.
This is tobacco road, so it won’t happen anytime soon, but I’d totally support it.
If only it were that simple. The ban isn’t just for the protection of patrons; it’s to protect waiters, waitresses, bartenders, etc. who actually spend far more time breathing in second hand smoke than do the customers. While I’m sure there might be enough places in a city such as Charlottesville for those folks to pick a non-smoking environment in which to work, I’m not sure that the same may be said for every small town in Virginia.
i have no problem with this.
Working in a smoke filled environment is awful. I only do it one or two nights a week for fun and extra cash, but it’s really taxing on your body. I can feel the difference in my lungs at the gym on a monday after those two nights as opposed to thursday when I feel normal. Also, how sweet is it to wear clothes to a bar and not smell like ass the next day. It wouldn’t hurt business as much as people think. I lived in NY when their ban went into affect and it was awesome. I know the owners where I work are all about it.
i’ve never understood when people get all upset about “the government deciding what is good for me and my health.”
newsflash, the government didn’t arbitrarily decide that smoking is bad for you–it is a scientific fact.
this country spends so much money on healthcare for things related to dumb behavior (smoking, irresponsible eating, etc.), that i think it is perfectly reasonable for it to outlaw things such as smoking, trans fats, driving without a seatbelt and riding a motorcycle without a helmet.
i think the government does plenty of things worth disagreeing with, but making people healthier isn’t one of them.
If the government really cared about our health, they would ban McDonald’s, BK, etc etc.
I don’t think business as a whole will be hurt at all. As long as everyone is on a level playing field, things will be fine. However, the point Chartreuse made is worth analyzing. Government regulation is a slippery slope. How far will you let the government go to “protect” you. Particularly when they are protecting a personal choice that each person makes.
Exactly Thor.
thor that is a pretty ridiculous response. banning a whole company because people eat too much is absurd. however, banning particular harmful thing the company adds to its products isn’t unreasonable (trans fats, nicotine, whatever the hell else is in cigarettes).
that is like saying “well they would ban all the car companies if they really cared about the auto-related deaths” instead of looking ways to make the cars safer and people drive better.
can you imagine downstairs at C&O without smoke?
that’s not ridiculous, it’s just saying that unhealthy foods are more of a problem that cigarettes smoke
Personally, I’d rather see restaurant air-quality legislation over an outright ban. If establishments want to pony up the dough to install equipment that would make their environment exponentially safer and healthier, they should be allowed to in order to continue to permit smoking rather than be forced to change the way they operate and potentially alienate customers (what about cigar bars, and places that cater specifically to smokers?)
I’m all about the government trying to nudge us in a safer/healthier direction, but when its attempts take the shape of inflexible mandates without options, I have a problem.
It’s not a ridiculous argument. Frying food is never going to be healthy, but I happen to like french fries. I like making the choice to eat french fries. I like knowing that restaurants can choose to make french fries.
I have got something for you to ban. It is no longer needed for its original purpose. It causes enormous health issues and costs the government billions of dollars a year. We could prevent and even eradicate numerous diseases and making it safer has proven ineffective. What am I?
I’m for it, but I’m also for a device that will allow me to teleport instead of fly commerical, which will probably happen before the Old Dominion bans smoking.
People who work in a Burger King aren’t forced to inhale saturated fat.
andy - what are sex, drugs and rock and roll?
yes they are, it’s just not unhealthy
But people aren’t forced to work at burger king either…
Good job Lys. Mainly sex…but I sure do like it.
smelling like burgers & not getting paid enough for good laundry detergent = not getting laid = getting depressed = bad for your health, therefore working at burger king is bad for your health.
/tongue firmly planted in cheek
Ireland imposed a smoking ban in 2004 and it had a calamitous effect on certain businesses that could not provide an outside smoking area. One chap fell off the 4th fire escape of a club,trying to sneak a quick puff. I had never actually seen human brain tissue before that night, but I digress.
Think of places like Michaels… how many people would fit out on the tiny balconies. Business will suffer for sure.
That should have read 4th floor… still shaking from the gummi porn
Andy: No, but people aren’t forced to work at bars either. Still, there’s precedent out there for safe workplace conditions, etc etc. With all the data out there, that’s not a hard argument to make.
Personally, I hate smoke, but I’m well aware that if I go out to a bar, I’m going to smell like smoke. I deal with it, and that’s fine — but I don’t have to be around it for 8 hours a day, etc.
Also, Andy, e-mail me if you could, wanted to talk to you about West Main .. cday at cvillessc dot org .. thanks.
done
People we’re talking about banning smoking from bars because it’s not healthy…From bars? Like bars where we unhealthily consume obnoxious amounts of alcohol before many of us get behind the wheel of our cars and drive home right? Or are we talking about salad bars. Cause then i agree that smoking should be banned from all salad bars. Who wants to smell smoke with their delicious buffalo chicken salad covered in bleu cheese? Not me.
thor, more of a problem for whom? certainly not for those who are responsible enough to not overindulge.
if i walk by or stand in the same room as someone eating french fries they aren’t going to just jump into my body.
and andy, eating some french fries isn’t necessarily that bad for you, assuming there are no trans fats, which lower HDL cholesterol.
I like burger king french fries.
I have no problem with a smoking ban in bars and restaurants; I am opposed to attempts to ban it in people’s cars and homes.
Here in NY and NJ the bars and restaurants are just as crowded as they ever were; heck, perhaps more so since you don’t schtink when you leave them now. The one downside is that everyone has to run the gauntlet of cancerstickers standing right outside blocking all the doors.
i guess ultimately the problem always ends up being people objecting for silly selfish reasons such as “i like french fries” and “i like to smoke at bars” and “i feel totally sweet not wearing a helmet” rather than looking at the greater good.
maybe i really like peeing on sidewalks. maybe that makes me just feel so alive! but, i’d be willing to forgo that thrill for the greater good.
That makes one of us.
But aren’t we missing the point. The fries will not jump into your body of course, you have to make a choice to avoid them. Just like you can make a conscious choice to avoid smoke. I like that choice. Being a smoker or not, liking smoke or not, or health issues aren’t the issue at stake. There are plenty of health issues out there and we all have choices to make, and guess what, the society you live in has been shaped by those choices. The reason we have non-smoking restaurants is because there is an economic niche for non-smoking restaurants. I happen to have non-smoking sections in my (well most) restaurants to accomodate certain people. I am happy to do it but it is a response to market conditions and customer feedback. For example, I love Zocalo. But I don’t eat there often because I like to smoke. If enough people were like me, Zocalo would allow smoking.
i’m pretty sure this is an excellent point. also hilarious.
i totally identify.
andy, what about the millions of children who don’t have the choice to avoid smoke? either in the home or when eating out with parents/other adults?
Parents who smoke around, or take their kids to smoke infested places should be prosecuted. People who have no choice must be protected. I also believe child endangerment laws should be passed for parents that feed their kids fast food all the time making them enormous at ten years old.
To me, it’s the same as starving or beating your kids. I have none by the way.
I lived in two cities during similar movements…people swore business would be hurt by the bans, but it actually improved. People who weren’t routinely eating out started to again. Smokers started congregating outside restaurants and socializing (remember the little smoker circle outside the dorm or dining hall in college?). I actually heard a word for smoker circle flirting on TV the other day: smirting. I imagine servers and other restaurant staffers were happier, too.
I don’t smoke, don’t like the smell of smoke, but I hate being out and having half the people I’m with constantly going outside to smoke. It’s like all the fun people are outside, so in a way, it’s a relief to me if we’re in a place that allows smoking.
You’re probably right. I’m just worried about the precedent.
My “right” comment was to upstart. Patience, you are also right, all the cool people do smoke.
I have also lived in cities where you are not allowed to smoke in bars and restaurants (and one city that allowed smoking only in bars, but not restaurants). It was so wonderful to have restaurants smell like food instead of smoke and even better when I didn’t have to shower immediately coming home from the bars (aka I could pass out on my doormat the second I walked in the door).
I have to admit though, of all the states this one is the least likely to approve a ban. Come on, this is “the tobacco state”. I have never actually lived in a place that had so many people in my age range that smoked. Not only do they smoke, they smoke with absolutely zero regard for other’s wellbeing. I just never seen anything like it. Maybe our generation will change their ways and get this approved at some point.
I mean this in the least slutty way possible, I would happily help “convince” any higher ups that could help get this approved.
Oooooh, to drink (slowly eating away my liver I realize) in a smoke free bar.
My prediction: The ban will pass. I f I recall correctly, they had the votes to pass it last year, but ran out of time or some such.
I am a smoker, and when I am out at bars I smoke way too much. For that reason, I often prefer to hang at non-smoking bars like zocalo and Oxo. A smoking ban will have two positive effects: I’ll smoke less and I’ll socialize more. You see the beauty of the non-smoking bar is that it forces you to mix and mingle with people (other smokers) that you may not have otherwise met. I have met more people and had more good conversation in the outdoor smoking ghettos than inside most bars smoking or nonsmoking. When it’s cold out, it’s a great bonding experience.
C&O without smoke would be very sad indeed, Caroline
Going back to Thor’s comment #8, PLEASE take the two minutes it will take to read William Saletan on the war on obesity from almost two years ago in Slate:
http://www.slate.com/id/2139941/
Then, rejoin.
“Junk-Food Jihad: Should we regulate French fries like cigarettes?”
Smokers are fine with me, as long as they do a complete job of the suicidal behavior and make it a full death prior to sucking down my tax bucks for health care.
Of course they should only smoke in their own houses, although I have noticed that many smokers that do not smoke in their own houses, but on the sidewalks out front, are irate when they cannot smoke in a bar etc. Ironic.
I have to say that I wouldn’t mind a smoking ban in bars and restaurants. I used to travel for work and it was always nice to go out in California or New York (state) and not go back to the hotel with rank clothes. Especially the next day, when you might have to put on said clothes again.
Having said that, there’s no way the tobacco lobby in VA is going to let this happen. Phillip Morris is far too strong in Richmond.
lilith, what elected official will have the balls to stand up to the nanny staters who cry they’re “doing it for the children”? Are we that willing to abdicate all parental responsibility to the government? Again, I have no trouble with not allowing crap to be sold in schools but stay the hell out of my house.
I just thought it was a good article. I didn’t express my own opinion.
/foronce
Tobacco is weak. Even Republicans can’t protect them. We must take them now.
I went to undergrad in a city that had just gotten rid of indoor smoking. Glorious. Only 25% of Americans smoke..why should they control 90% of bars and nightclubs?
However they went one step further: By the time I left they had just enacted a ban on smoking outdoors within X feet of public buildings. No smoking sections indoors or outdoors.
Good riddance! I know smokers will snarl at my glee, but thank God you didn’t control my nightlife those 4 years. Indoor smoking sections are bogus because the smoke floats out (Ruby Tuesday on Barracks is a great example of that). Outdoor smoking sections are bogus because smoke radiates all 360 degrees, not just upwards. So if I’m sitting outside I gotta deal with your smell ruining my meal. And smoking outside of buildings is bogus because it makes people walking past on the sidewalk have to inhale your shit. So it’s not just about people going to bars, it’s about everyone who walks in urban areas walking past people who take a 10-minute break every goddamn hour to smoke and who waft past my cube smelling like shit and who wanna kiss me and make love to me smelling like shit and that shit does something to your tongue I don’t know what but smoker tongue tastes funny!
/rant off
Breathe.
Look..
If I gotsta blow my ‘dro only in the crib, then you should be forced to keep your cigs on your personal property.
Smoking is an addiction, not a right!
Poll added!
But he was Irish, right, so he probably wasn’t using it (I kid! I love the Irish. ‘Specially the wimmens. growl!)
There’s no need to enact legislation against smoking in restaurants/bars. If the “movement” is popular enough to pass the voting required, restaurants can and will establish those rules on their own, in the interest of obtaining more customers (e.g., Kiki, ZoCaLo, X Lounge, Ten, etc.)
(caveat - I’m an ex-smoker who prefers non-smoking bars - even on those evenings where I occasionally slip back into temporary smoker mode)
and…
Tobacco is a product, much easier to regulate than “obesity”, which is a state of being. Banning “obesity” is like banning “cancer”. So think about products, not complex physical states.
Tobacco is unhealthy with even one dose. French fries are not. Fast food or sugary or fatty foods are not unhealthy on their own in a dose. It’s lack of moderation that causes health problems with any food. You could eat too many carrots and get sick from that.
School lunches: disgusting. All that bad food week in week out and the kids’ only “choice” is between pizza, burgers and salisbury steak. Institutional food can be healthy, and there are school districts that have implemented healthy food choices.
Oy… lucky I love you or I may have gotten upset at that Paddy poke.
Cheeky bastard.
Sorry, oy…no. Businesses will not change the status quo on their own. Never assume that business is the leading indicator of what people want. Businesses are by definition conservative, existing in the status quo and unwilling to change unless forced by government or loss of market share.
Smokers have always been a minority and restaurants have always catered to them because the smoking population and the drinking population are so linked. That’s why it’s restaurants that sell alcohol that cater the most to smokers, and restaurants without alcohol that cater the least.
Downtown Grille went from being an actual cigar bar to being non-smoking. It happens, LaGrape. And actually, I believe that oy said practically the same thing that you did. What you call “loss of market share” he calls “movement.” When a restaurant begins to see it affecting the bottom line, one way or ther other, they will likely change to follow the money.
If you have children in your home or car, it should be a crime to smoke in either.
Clearly we have to have laws to protect the children of the idiots who will not protect their own.
Idiots raising children… this is why I’m for birth control education in schools and was thrilled when the results came in that abstinence-only education doesn’t affect teen sex rates. (I would have loved to see it make the occurrence go up.) It just leaves kids clueless about safe sexual practices when they’re chomping at the bit to bang. They’ll do it anyway.
Wait, what were we talking about? Nevermind.
I’m just trying to arrange some make-up sex with you, that’s all.
“Paddy poke”? Not gonna touch that one, too easy.
LaGrape - Thatgrrl’s right, we’re saying the same thing, to an extent. The politicians are just playing a popularity game - anti smoking is popular, so they’re behind it. The smart business owners will be there before the politicians. Let the free market make the rules, not the power whores.
Correlation ain’t causation, but teen pregnancy rates did go up up in 2006. Source.
floozy, you floozy.
Oh no no, it was more specific than that. Try this:
Washington Post: Abstinence-Only Sex-Ed Funds Cut Off by Kaine (11-13-07)
Kaiser Family Foundation: Public Health & Education | Abstinence-Only Education Ineffective in Preventing, Delaying Sex Among Teens, Study Says (4-16-07)
Washington Post: Some Abstinence Programs Mislead Teens, Report Says (2-2-04)
Did someone happen to see Juno this weekend? Great movie! Or is all this off-topic teen-pregnancy stuff coincidental?
I don’t smoke and I think it’s a disgusting habit, but I don’t support banning smoking in bars or restaurants either. It is just further government intervention in business. There are plenty of business owners that make private decisions to ban smoking in their own establishments. It’s their property and they have the right to disallow smoking. In many cases, it’s a smart business decision made to cater to a certain demographic. Likewise, some bars that allow smoking are catering towards a different demographic. Non-smokers and choose to go to other restaurants or bars if they do not want to deal with the smoke. Employees can find other places to work. Many bartenders will tell you that smokers drink more and tip more than non-smokers in bars. Many bartenders oppose the smoking ban. What if a business owner wants to cater specifically to smokers to take advantage of a niche market? He can’t if it’s banned.
Banning smoking in bars and restaurants benefits no one. It removes choice from not only the consumer, but from private business owners. It sickens me to see how authoritarian some of you are.
Methinks the lost business of cigarette smokers will be replaced by non-smokers who currently choose to stay home.
F@ing Peanuts cartoon arguments against the steady erosion of individual freedoms. Hey…guess what. They are coming for you next. What is your pleasure. Not for long. Prohibition worked just great. Everyone I know who works in the restaurant industry smokes and is an addict to one form or substance or another. Live in your ivory f@ing towers. The hypocrisy is astounding. Private businesses have a right to do what they want in their private businesses. You choose not to frequent them if what they do disgusts you. Simple. Change the channel. Don’t let little Jimmy watch porn. The culture changes. I’ve noticed a lot of the newer restaurants have gone non-smoking. Awesome. That is their right. I don’t go into them for long or spend time in them. Eventually the market will bear out on one side or the other. I don’t need or want a government entity dictating my choices. I don’t need them telling me I need to wear my seatbelt. Or my helmet. If you can’t think for yourself…I suggest Cuba. You’re all big boys and girls. Don’t go into places if you don’t like the atmosphere. “But I don’t want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want sin.”
I fear for this country. We should actually outlaw vehicles entirely because nothing kills more than they do. Let’s be safe..safe…safe. And bathrooms. And steak knives. And lawyers.
Back to your scheduled pseudo intellectual “humor” and we are so out we’re in cliquish discussions. Carry on.
Signed, Sandy Vagina.
Ohhh Sandy
no, no, you have the wrong blog. we’re not pseudo intellectual, we’re retarded.
i’m gonna go have a cigarette.
Actually Parlie…you’re not quite in enough to be a “we” Sorry.
Ha! Talk about some serious angst Taliesin. If you hate the, “…scheduled pseudo intellectual “humor†and we are so out we’re in cliquish discussions,” take your “freedom” to surf the web elsewhere. You came to the site of your own accord and oddly enough read/post on your own as well (unless there is a gun to your head I am unaware of), feel free to leave anytime, I promise no one here will ban it. It would be great news for readers and posters of the site. It means there will be more room in the ivory towers for everyone else.
Damn it! Now I’ve gone and been all serious! Geeezeee…
I’m glad you were out smoking for everyone parlie, maybe it will help everyone be less astoundingly hypocritical, and express OUR “freedom”. Or maybe there is just no pleasing Taliesin (maybe cause he isn’t a “we”…bitter, bitter). Haven’t you heard the saying? Get out of the bitter barn and play in the hay!!!
I know plenty of restaurant workers who don’t smoke. I know plenty of bartenders who don’t smoke. My bartending friends prefer bars where there is no smoking. Their customers tip quite well. How exactly do you have any proof that smokers tip better than non-smokers? That’s bull…
But hey, keep on generalizing.
Aside from that, I don’t think the government should be the one to ban. It should be up to the owner of the establishment.
Oh, and Ms. Taliesin…you shouldn’t hate on parlie. He posts more than you and usually has far wittier things to say…
But hey, keep on chugging those bitters…
Talie, I’d leave that sand where it is… left undisturbed for years you might get a nice pearl out of it.
Parlie is short for Parliment.
and cause he has little legs
I have recently completed a short study on the top three best tippers in a local establishment by a non-smoking local bartender. The results are as follows:
1. Smoker 30 on 80
2. Smoker 26 on 70
3. Smoker 25 on 100
Non-smokers tip well too, but in this study, the three best tips of the night were by smokers. Now this can’t be considered proof, but i’d be willing to conduct a more in depth study this weekend.
great reading for early am coffee, thanks taley-ho!
Bukbuk, all those numbers are ages, right?
taliesin, i’m happy for you, that your internet persona is cooler than mine. it’s amazing you even have time to post, with all the ass you must be pulling in “second life.”
Here’s what I think and what think is right. Successful restaurants are like magic and they’re loathe to change anything as major as smoking. So they’d prefer it if the ban was on all restaurants for a level playing field. Because banning smoking in an established restaurant is too risky. In D.C. all the complaints by owners were fears that patrons would go across the borders to Va. and Md. All about the competition, nobody really wants to smoke. I have inside info on that but I can’t tell it to you. It concerns one of the restaurants mentioned several times in this thread. And a lot of guessing.
And hipster-doo, the Juno>/b> soundtrack is number one*, but in the film credits I did not hear “FUCK BUSH AND FUCK THIS WAR,” I think it was edited out but it’s on the Fox Searchlight web site.
* On the digital charts, the real release was not until yesterday. And there is an unfortunate connection to Alvin and the Chipmunks.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/extendedplay/2008/01/juno-making-bil.html
Colfer:
That is absolutely true. Owners and workers, even if they hate the smoking environment and wish it were gone, don’t want to make the move on their own because of lost customers and business. If everyone loses it, people won’t go in search of a smoking bar, they will just stay at their current spot and bitch about it while they smoke on the patio.
Can you smoke in bars in “second life”?
Brendan Fitzgerald, where are you to answer that? This is mostly an excuse to say you are a really good writer and I look forward to your culture bits. FYI.
Actually, we’re not saying the same thing. She was saying let the government do nothing cuz the restaurants will change on their own. I’m saying the government must do something because the restaurants are conservative and won’t change unless pushed (see posts by Bukbuk and Colfer).
Ah, gotcha
In that case, you’re full of shit
Guess we just choose to disagree, then. Downtown Grille’s decision to voluntarily change from a smoking to non-smoking seems to say that restaurants do change on their own, undoubtedly when they see it hitting their bottom line. As the number of smokers drop, I’d presume that more restaurants will also voluntarily choose to change, as well. It won’t happen as quickly, if left to market forces. Some places will never see it to be in their best interests to change format. But restaurants can and do change, when they know it is affecting their profits in a detrimental way.
Personally, I prefer a nonsmoking environment, as a nonsmoker. I also feel tremendously for waiters and bartenders who (for whatever reason) are stuck breathing that stuff. But my own jury of one hasn’t yet decided if I want government to decide this one for all of us. Yes, it levels the playing field. But that level field hurts some (economically) as much as it helps others (possibly economically, but definitely in a health sense). Dunno. Until then, I’ll just choose to frequent nonsmoking establishments as much as possible.
if smoking indoors is banned across the board, who hurts economically besides tobacco companies?
Once again, the Germans do it the German way
Theoretically, if there was an advantage to going to a bar specifically because it was nonsmoking, it’s now lost its main drawing point in a completely nonsmoking world. It is now like all the other places. I certainly know plenty of smokers who would rather hang in specific places which are nonsmoking, but frequent smoking bars instead, to be able to puff away indoors (particularly when the weather is bad). Were all restaurants nonsmoking, it might come down to which of the nonsmoking places has the best/most accessible/covered nonsmoking area outdoors. A smoking ban would definitely have an economic impact disproportionately affecting different restaurants.
if smoking indoors is banned across the board, who hurts economically besides tobacco companies?
I do. I’ve been selling singles outside middle schools for like a 400% mark up and cleaning up.
BOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
i love smoking. i actually consider it a hobby, not just a dirty habit. it tastes good, feels good, and makes you look cool. cigarettes are totally awesome. i truly avoid places like no.smoke.a.lo. i only goif my friends INSIST, and then i only stay for the shortest amount of time possible. if cigarettes get bbanned from bars, i am goinng to quit going to bars, and become the recluse alcoholic we all know i could be.
interestinglyenough, though– i dont smoke in my house.never have, never will (well, occasionallyfor parties i’ll allow folks to light up inside.) as much as i love smoking, i really DONT like the smellin my house….but a bar? funk,miller’s would not be the same without cigarettes.
i’d really like to open a smokers cafe. basically, a head shop that serves food and sells all sorts of fantastic tobacco products. that would rule.
HH Check your email
uh, i did just check my email. MY email, not my sisters. the hotmail account, not the yahoo one. and…um…nothing…….
OK I resent. Tell your sister she can come too
done and done.
and yes, i DO want to make out……
[…] Daily Progress asks some restaurant folks what they think of the proposed smoking ban. Our discussion was way better. They should have interviewed you guys. […]
banning smoking = nazi fascist shite
As stated above, some places will ban it on their own to appeal to a non-smoking clientelle. Some places - some AMERICAN places - will allow it because IT’S A BAR!!!!!!
Don’t like the smoke? You have choices. Go somewhere else. I’m sure these points have been covered, but I had to repeat.
Here people thought a smoking ban was controlling, clearly they could have it far worse.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22559988?gt1=10755
This is just absurd…these people are NO FUN! How on earth will I ever go to a bar in St. Charles if I can’t dance on the table?! Lame.
Sid - Thanks for the article. Def one of the funniest headline since the Post’s “Ike Beats Tina To Death”
[…] Virginia schools? I think this would be a good thing. We had little threads of this discussion the smoking ban post, but I think this one earns its own […]
[…] January 8, I posted the news that Governor Tim Kaine has proposed a statewide smoking ban. All 98 comments are interesting, but I’m pulling two. Andy contributed: Parents who smoke […]
[…] how unhealthily we live our lives? So cVillains, lets unite and smoke the smoke out. As I recall, an overwhelming majority of you (72%) would support a smoking ban, so lets start […]
let’s let the almighty market decide. if an establishment allows for smoking, but installs air filters, and a non-smoking section, it is really choosing to let the consumer decide, a clear bottom-up move. waiting for the governator or city council is an adbication to the loudest voices (remember an empty barrel makes the loudest noise,)and those whose seldom do what is fair or right. in a world ful of harmful and adulterated environments, cigarette smoke seems trivial as a pollutant. cigarette companies were the real problem with their political agendas, not a plant. for those who work hard, have stress in their lives, screaming kids at home, or even if all is hunky dory, why not allow for the express release of tension, via tobacco, (much like alcohol,) for those old enough to decide for themselves. tobacco is just one of many drugs in our quiver of chemical compounds used to deal with this here world. for those of yous who have never enjoyed a choice cohiba or end-of-the-day burner, how can you predicate your judgement about what is best for all of us? it doesn’t jibe with reality. first sangria, now cigarettes, what’s next? if you think illegal crack and its incepient crime is bad, wait till tobacco is banned.
Go Tomas go!
i can see them now. armies of crazed smokers littering the landscape, doing crime stuff in the name of their lost cigarettes. it’s making me laugh.
i think we’re just talking about a restaurant ban here, not an all-out prohibition.
shhh, let crazy man speak. he funny.
@101 I agree with Parli, you can’t take a microcosm of Restaurants without cigarettes and expand upon an entire nation of nicotine craving beings. In addition, I would like to state it is a proven fact that cigarettes dull the taste buds and therefore severly incapacitate the ability to taste the subtleties of both food and wine. Therefore, as a proponent of the knowledge and understaning of both of these aspect when dining, it seems the lack of smoking, and smoke being blown in your face while dining, would increase the ability of your consumers to have a truly “orgasmic?” “sexual?” experience. Besides, no one said smokers couldn’t go outside.
/Capital letters are our friends.
i’m gonna play my trick again.
let’s let the good community decide. if an consensus disallows smoking, or requires certified HEPA air filters, or a non-smoking section with its own ventilation, it is really choosing to let the people make the decision, a clear bottom-up move. waiting for the restaurant owners or 51% stakeholders is an abdication to the greediest voices (remember a full parking lot has the dimmest lights) and those who seldom do what is wise or farsighted. in a world full of harmful and adulterated environments, cigarette smoke seems like an unneeded stress. cigarette companies were the real problem with their profit agendas to cause smoking, not the plant itself growing in the ground, unsmoked. for those who work hard, have stress in their lives, screaming kids at home, or even if all is hunky dory, why not allow for the express release of tension, in a bar without tobacco, (all the better to enjoy alcohol or just friends & oxygen), for those communities organized enough to decide for themselves. tobacco is the one drug in our quiver of chemical compounds used to deal with this here world that directly irritates the people nearest to us. for those of you who have ever suffered sitting nearby someone burning up an expensive cohiba or end-of-the-day solvent, how can you not be aware what is best for all of us? it jibes with reality. first cows are fed cows for profit, then people are plied with smoke, what’s next? if you think fine spanish food is good, wait until you’ve had it without tar & nictotine on the walls.
I have no trouble with smoking bans in bars and restaurants. Demonstrably, they can work, if at some nuisance to the bartenders and waitstaff (whose drink is this? oh, that person outside). But the people who advocate most vociferously for them (cf. colfer in 106) tend to come off as smug, righteous, and annoying.
Relax. Judging from the trajectory of state legislation (a slew of smoking bans on the east coast up to and including Washington, DC), a Virginia smoking ban is coming. In the meantime, call a fucking Waaaambulance.
Hell yeah!! Lets do it!
And lets ban all foods that are bad for you too!
Close all the fast food joints, and ban all candy and sweets. Hell, I’d say kill all food that isnt -
35% Protein
40% Carbs
25% Fat
Lets do it! Lets make this a healthier USA, so we dont have to pay as much taxes on fat and smoking people getting old and dying.
Why stop there?? How about forced hourly workouts daily… if you dont workout, you go to jail for the next day. This could get really awesome!
except eating bad foods doesn’t kill people around you.