I always hear this hoopla around the UVa honor code…how its so great and magically delicious, and EVERYONE at U.Va. is the most ethical and honest person in the world…oh, and how its so strict: one strike and you’re out. Well, that doesn’t seem to be the case. The Hook reports that 3rd year cornerback Michael Brown was involved in an automobile break-in early February. (edit) If convicted, this would not be his first crime either (close edit). He plead guilty to trespassing and starting a fight at the Delta Upsilon fraternity his freshman year. It’s usually in the movies where star-athletes are protected by the almighty football coach and overbearing provost. Could the apple fall that close to the tree? U.Va. uses the following criteria to determine if an honor violation has occurred:
- Act: Was the act of lying, cheating or stealing committed?
- Intent: Was the act committed willfully or intentionally?
- Non-triviality: Would open toleration of such an act impair the community of trust sufficiently enough to warrant permanent dismissal from the community?
“Chet, why don’t we watch that replay.”
- Act: Breaking into a car and stealing $3,400 worth of goods with your buddies.
- Intent: It’s hard to believe they accidentally broke into a car and accidentally removed $3,400 worth of goods not belonging to them, and forgot to put it back after realizing they’re “bad.”
- Non-triviality: I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t feel too safe knowing my car could get broken into on campus.
So while football coach Al Groh states Mike Brown is no longer “participating with the program at this time,” there is no mention of dismissal from U.Va. I thought you Cavaliers knew right and wrong (according to the code), and acted accordingly. Let the Honor Committee hear you out by calling 924-7602.
Photo courtesy of Facebook.
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Tagged as: break in, cornerback, Crime, football, michael brown, mike brown, theft, UVA
wait wait…are you telling me that an athlete has received special treatment, essentially leaving them above the rules that everyone else is held accountable to?
i am sooooooo surprised
The Honor System does not summarily expel a student based on a newspaper story or, for that matter, a blog entry. If convicted of a crime, I’m sure that there will be an honor trial and Mr. Brown will have an opportunity to defend himself.
It seems like he was charged for a crime in 2006.
Was it lying, cheating, or stealing? If not, then it falls under the jurisdiction of the Judiciary Committee, not the Honor System.
While I have extensive reservations about the Honor System, this seems, to be impolitic, silly. First, as Smiley noted, the Honor System has no instant procedure, and I would certainly expect that Mr. Brown may well face an Honor charge in his future, and there does seem to be support for his expulsion, assuming the charges are true (see, for example, the consideration of such a possibility at thesabre.com, http://tinyurl.com/2c6u6v, and virginia.rivals.com, http://tinyurl.com/27tm5m (subscription needed)). Second, you may not realize this, but a much, much more important cog in the U-Va football machine left the university this term as the result of an honor charge.
Oh, oh, let’s make sure we’ve got the facts about this one case, before we extrapolate from it to indict the entire Honor System. The fact that he’s still at the University does not mean that there isn’t an Honor Trial pending or that he might ultimately be expelled; the fact that he’s been accused of a crime doesn’t mean he committed it; the fact, as the Hook reported, that the UVA Judiciary Committee sanctioned him for trespassing and “dismissed the other charges” has nothing to do with the Honor Committee – they are separate entities. Perhaps we might be a bit less cavalier with facts and their implication…….
coconut, were you paying attention to the jeffrey fitzgerald situation at all?
http://www.dailyprogress.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=CDP%2FMGArticle%2FCDP_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173354747728&path=!sports
the “privacy issues” stem from the fact that this was indeed an honor charge, and he was found guilty and expelled. i was as shocked as anyone that he was actually dismissed given his status as an athlete, but sometimes the system does actually work like it’s supposed to.
i concur with 2 and 5. brown might be in line for a trial, but crimes aren’t necessarily the jurisdiction of the honor committee.
So lets turn it around, based on the “allegations”, should Mike Brown be tried by the Honor Committee?
I can’t wait for the day when you write a post with constructive criticism and feedback instead of bitter and destructive words. The system may not be perfect, but UVa students benefit a lot from it. Try focusing on the possitives for once
@8: That decision is determined by the student body at UVa, as the Honor System is entirely student oriented. Only a student may raise an accusation of an honor violation, and only the student-run Honor Committee may adjudicate that accusation. But, I’ll repeat myself, until Mr. Brown is convicted of a crime, or unless a student witnessed him commit a crime, then there is no basis for an honor trial.
(and the crime must be either lying, cheating, or stealing.)
Slight correction: ‘Anyone may report a potential Honor violation.’ http://www.virginia.edu/honor/FAQ.html
For the actual source, see IV.A.1, http://www.virginia.edu/honor/proc/bylaws/2007/page8.html.
Oooh, burn!
Zzzzz….
Students are not the only ones that can raise an accusation of an honor violation. If that was the case, the case load would be even smaller than it currently is. Professors can initiate cases.
the bottom line is that a case has to be initiated by somebody. just because somebody lies, cheats or steals doesn’t mean that honor charges magically appear…even if they get arrested for it! now that this has hit the papers, someone may step up and initiate a case against him. honestly, i hope someone does.
cocoNUT,
Do you or did you got to UVa?? I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume that you don’t/didn’t: as as alumnus, I agree that the system is not perfect and it has many flaws. But your POLARIZED post in which you question the system (oldest student run honor code in the country) based on a case seems irresponsible to me. Do you know of all the benefits that students get out of the Honor Code? I challenge you to talk to the students who are allowed to take exams out in a garden or in the comfort of their home, or the ones who leave their books on the library table while they take a coffee break, or the ones that defer a cab ride charge on the understanding that they’ll pay later. I wonder what they think of the honor system… think about the other side of the coin, there are good things out there besides the steak tartare at Pettit Pois, which as far as I know, it’s the only thing in life that brings you joy
@14
i don’t really think it matters if there is an honor case against him or not, assuming he gets kicked off the team for this (which despite Groh’s coddling, i am almost sure he will). once he’s off the team and loses his scholarship and all the academic hand-holding (and basically hand manipulating over the keyboard while doing school work) that comes with being on the football team, i would be shocked if he could stay in school on his own.
maybe he’s the rare d1 football criminal who actually has brains, but i wouldn’t bet on it.
hasty, hasty, hasty, ill-informed. most posters have already pointed out the obvious problems with the original post (i.e., Brown’s breaking/entering problem was not an instance of “lying, cheating, stealing”; Brown was just recently charged with the theft, so it’s a little premature to ask why he hasn’t already been tried and convicted of an honor offense). I’ll just add that the whole honor trial process tends to be quite long and drawn-out; i’ve known kids charged with honor offenses who go another whole semester before their trial comes up.
but, prediction: Brown withdraws before it even gets to an honor trial.
another prediction (an easy one): Groh kicks him off the team.
anyone shocked that Jeffrey Fitzgerald was expelled due to an honor violation — that is, shocked that an athlete would actually be expelled — just doesn’t know very much about Virginia athletics. They are not protected from expulsion, any more than any extremely rich non-athlete with an aggressively litigious parent might be, that is. Fitzgerald was high profile; I can think of a number of lower profile student athletes who “left the program” over honor violations. They’re also not protected from flunking out; the ones that can’t do the work do flunk out (as do the non-athletes who can’t or won’t do the work).
ok, so he isnt charged with anything yet. The point of this post was to bring up the use and enforcement of the honor code. Would this warrant an immediate action from UVa or does someone really have to pick up the phone, call and report it, and then initiate the process? Or could it be that these things are quietly settled so it never becomes very public that the honor code was violated, or judged to be violated?
C-nut- you have a serious axe to grind here. Perhaps if you were to give full disclosure on your issues with either UVa, sports, the player or a combo of the above. Seems more than a passing issue for you.
Or did someone tell you that life is fair?
Speaking generally and not to this situation…
I don’t think that violations of the Honor Code by U.Va. students are covered up at a school that prides itself on its honor system in the national spotlight. People are going to make mistakes, especially in that incredibly insecure time between the ages of 18 and 23. Intensely Christian colleges have entirely unreasonable expectations of students’ behavior, but this is a public school here. It’s my impression that an institution with a reputation like Virginia’s knows it is much better not to cover something up, but handling something quietly is completely different. I think that out of respect to an individual and his/her family, it’s okay not to sound alarms. Get treatment. Get life back on track. Don’t hand out scarlet letters.
How about neither of your two forced-choice options? Someone has to initiate the honor violation–someone has to bring charges, so to speak. “the university,” which is an abstraction of course, can’t initiate anything (just like “the state” doesn’t do things, people–a prosecutor, a DA–do things). So yes, an actual person has to initiate the process. If you find this weird or off-putting, consider that the same thing is true for “real” law enforcement as well. A person has to start the process.
I don’t even understand what you mean when you suggest that “these things are quietly settled so it never becomes very public that the honor code was violated.” Yes, students, like other human beings in our society, have privacy rights, and so when they go through honor trials and are either found guilty and dismissed or found not guilty and can continue at UVa, they can generally count on the “whole thing” to be conducted with respect for their privacy. Students can choose to have open trials, but that’s not common. If someone is dismissed over an honor code violation, in practice the general rule is that it’s quiet–the student doesn’t trumpet the fact, and why should the university do so? Should they be publishing a list of students dismissed for honor violations? Besides the fact that doing so would open the university up to litigation (“you ruined my son’s career chances” blah blah blah), how is it my business (or yours) that Suzy-Q was dismissed for an honor violation?
You know, you say that the point of your post was to “bring up the use and enforcement of the honor code,” but that seems like a bit of revisionist history, so to speak. I’ll quote the beginning of your original post:
“I always hear this hoopla around the UVa honor code…how its so great and magically delicious, and EVERYONE at U.Va. is the most ethical and honest person in the world…oh, and how its so strict: one strike and you’re out. Well, that doesn’t seem to be the case.”
Seems, from your own words, like your primary point was to sneer at and play gotcha with the Honor Code. Full disclosure: I did NOT go to UVa. I actually have Big Issues with the Honor Code. But I have bigger issues with hasty, ill-researched, ill-informed, ill-motivated posts on any topic.
Esteban=BunnyCarlos
Does cocNut post obnoxious articles solely to bother people and stir up traffic?
my name is ff and i still hate cocoNutt. rowr!
My name’s shenanihayhay and I want cocNut’s babies.
hahaha
i have no axe to grind…i saw this article and the first thing that came to mind was the UVa honor code. If a UVa student were to be found guilty for the “act” part of the code in a court of law, I would like to know if the honor committee would have its own mini-inquisition, or side with the court, and I would be interested to know how often this happens.
Lilith points out that we should not frown upon so heavily the naughty acts of youth (18-23)…I disagree. Once you’re an adult the responsibility is all on you.
Here he is ff! I’ll hold him and you can kick him in the shins!
shins? try a little further north…
That’s not what I was suggesting– I was saying that it’s a tumultuous age so bad choices are going to be made and any college administration should expect that. I think personal accountability starts when you’re born. I live a very drama-less life because what you see is what you get. In spite of being an anonymous blogger on a gossip site, I’ve never been told I’m a gossip in real life.
I would like to know if the white frat boys who stole the Hokie statue got kicked out
On the contrary, the white frat boys have their own statues on the Grounds – remember the offense must be “Non-trivial”; here’s the test: Would open toleration of such an act impair the community of trust sufficiently enough to warrant permanent dismissal from the community? Stealing that Hokie statue didn’t impair the community of trust, it enhanced it!
There is also the limitations of distance as it relates to the honor code. If you steal something on spring break and you don’t represent yourself as a UVa student it’s not a violation.
Any stealing in the city, county, or grounds would count.
Never did like that rule; seems to me that if you drive up to Wintergreen, steal some gold plated skis and return to your nest on the lawn – you oughta be gone……
I’m unsure why? If you get caught you will still have to deal with breaking the law like anyone else. Have a record will also hurt grad school and job apps. Lastly jail time will make getting to class quite a problem.
Simple, you join a community and agree to foster its common understanding of honor: don’t lie, cheat or steal (unqualified originally by geography or triviality, etc.). You lie, cheat or steal and you have broken your agreement and no longer qualify to continue as a member of it; it’s not about sanctions, how much you’re hurt by your wrongful conduct; it’s about whether you are honorable or not. If not, then you are asked to leave the community because, in a very fundamental way, you don’t belong there.
I agree with Alarac–it’s lame and a watering-down of the honor code to say “oh, it doesn’t count if you did it on spring break in Cabo, you’re still honorable.” my issues with the honor code generally revolve around the extent to which they don’t really mean it. honor is not supposed to be limited to a certain geographic location–it’s supposed to be a state of character. either you’re honorable or you’re not. they added the “on grounds only” caveat relatively recently.