OH Snap. No more late night headbanger parties. WCAV Reports:
All city restaurants will have a new limit of 75 decibels after 11p.m. The reading is for outside the establishment. Restaurants are advised to keep the door closed to keep the sound inside.
The council says that if a police officer takes a reading with the door open then that will be the official reading. Noise on the downtown mall is limited to 75 decibels all day. That includes street performers and restaurants.
Examples of decibel levels from wikipedia:
| Source of sound | Sound pressure | Sound pressure level |
|---|---|---|
| pascal | dB re 20 μPa | |
| Theoretical limit for undistorted sound at 1 atmosphere environmental pressure |
101,325 Pa | 191.085 dB |
| Krakatoa explosion at 100 miles (160 km) in air | 20,000 Pa | 180 dB |
| Simple open-ended thermoacoustic device [6] | 12,000 Pa | 176 dB |
| M1 Garand being fired at 1 m | 5,000 Pa | 168 dB |
| Jet engine at 30 m | 630 Pa | 150 dB |
| Rifle being fired at 1 m | 200 Pa | 140 dB |
| Threshold of pain | 100 Pa | 130 dB |
| Hearing damage (due to short-term exposure) | 20 Pa | approx. 120 dB |
| Jet at 100 m | 6 – 200 Pa | 110 – 140 dB |
| Jack hammer at 1 m | 2 Pa | approx. 100 dB |
| Hearing damage (due to long-term exposure) | 6×10−1 Pa | approx. 85 dB |
| Major road at 10 m | 2×10−1 – 6×10−1 Pa | 80 – 90 dB |
| Passenger car at 10 m | 2×10−2 – 2×10−1 Pa | 60 – 80 dB |
| TV (set at home level) at 1 m | 2×10−2 Pa | approx. 60 dB |
| Normal talking at 1 m | 2×10−3 – 2×10−2 Pa | 40 – 60 dB |
| Very calm room | 2×10−4 – 6×10−4 Pa | 20 – 30 dB |
| Leaves rustling, calm breathing | 6×10−5 Pa | 10 dB |
So, you can’t be louder than a passenger car in a restaurant? This is retarded. Bars have got to be louder than this at night. If you live downtown, you should deal with above average noise levels. I’m pissed. Say goodbye to outdoor shows, late night music, etc.
What do you think?
Related posts:
- Charlottesville Noise Ordinance Round… 5..? Etc.
- Bel Ri.., Err, Belmont Noise Debate Round 4(ish). FIGHT!
- Downtown Mall Sign Ordinance Reversed=Happy Businesses
I think this will be _very_ selectively enforced. Honestly, who is going to complain about the likes of OXO, X-lounge, and some others being that there are no residential units next to them. And who is going to complain about a friday’s after 5 concert?
the pavilion is exempt and they will probably have to be a complaint filed first. So place on the mall near apartments (miller’s) will be more affected than place not across or under apartments (oxo).
I may be wrong, but I believe a lot of this is do to the escalation of a conflict that happened a while back at the cafeteria. A cop pulled the plug on a Mardi Gras party, yanked me outside, told me I was too loud and it was my responsibility (as opposed to the bar itself) and I was being cited personally. Owner and GM were there and had my back. They asked what specifically the ordinance was, and what they were quoted was wrong (75 dbs at 150 feet from the door of the venue). I believe owner spoke with city hall or someone, though I don’t know. Here it is a month later and its clarification time all around.
I think this will be _very_ selectively enforced
Absolutely. I have been threatened to be cited for noise at my gig six times, and threatened to be cited for parking on the edge of the bricks to unload equipment probably seven times. All by one police officer (same as above). I have asked three other officers about these issues as I want to be in compliance and none of the others had any problems nor complaints.
“I could hear you from Miller’s” is not a valid complaint, nor is it even possible given my equipments limitations. The one that gets tossed out all the time is “someone at the Omni” complained. Which means they called the front desk. Which means it cant ever be verified. I have even got “The owner of the Omni called the police chief who called me”. Oh really? Maybe, I guess. Still…
in my Googling I found that
“rock concert” rates 120 db
stadium crowd 100-110
hair dryer 90 db
subway platform 105
leaf blower 110
iPod at max with earphones: 120
busy street 80
movie theater 118
Actually, I think this mostly stemmed from complaints in the Belmont area about noise from Mas and La Taza, although I know my neighborhood complained a bunch back when White Orchid was making a failed attempt to stay afloat by having a DJ from 11PM – 2 AM and opening all the garage doors/windows so you could sing along to the (bad) music a half mile away with windows closed (okay, so a quarter mile). Based on the old noise ordinance, if noise in a residential area was over the limit but the noise originated from commercial zoning, nothing could be done. I think this was meant to remedy that, which is why I don’t believe it kicks in for neighborhoods until after 10 PM (correct me if I’m wrong). That being said, the new ordinance makes it so the Downtown Mall can never be above 75 db, which seems a bit over the top to me – some businesses must have complained that street performers or something was interfereing with their ability to do business.
And yes, this will only be enforced if/when someone complains.
It think it sucks. Same thing with excessively low speed limits. If your on the mall, deal with it. This is a what happens when the law makers seek to appease a few angry citizens rather than considering the community good. I am sure a noise ordinace would be great for teh few hundred people who live within hearing distance of the mall (or downtown Belmont) but what about the tens of thousands of citizens who enjoy the city and all of its loudness??? Dumb. Same goes for lowered speed limits. Five people on Monticello Ave want to reduce the speed limit from 35 to 25. Sure its great for them, but what about the thousands who need to drive on that road to get to work or home??? Why should the benefit of a few vocal residents out weight that of everyone else. Silliness.
do people really move downtown and expect it to be quiet? that’s silly.
Yep. This is stupid.
My biggest concern is where will bucketman go?
someone just needs to go buy a noise level meter, check the dB levels outside of every business that doesn’t have a band playing, then call and complain if they’re above 75db. the only way this will get turned around is if businesses that shouldn’t be affected by it are affected by it.
No, I’ll sleep better at night knowing that the mall is once again quiet enough for me to hear all the gunshots in my neighborhood.
I never refuse, am always polite and always comply.
/dont tase me bro!
To celebrate I will play Limp Bizkit, “Shut the Fuck Up” at full blast on my computer speakers.
Otherwise, shut your doors and windows and stay inside your own space and do not force your stink or noise onto others. Like smoking, just because you want to be an asshole does not mean the world has to put up with it.
I remember some loud college kids that loved to make lots of noise late at night. Boy where they incensed when we asked them to keep it to themselves and shut their windows. Boy where they REALLY pissed when we had the kids play noisily outside their joint the next morning.
Just cannot have your cake and eat it too.
How loud are screaming kids on a Saturday morning?
So..most importantly, what will this mean for OXO dance party?
As a corollary to this ordinance, I move that churches not exceed the alloted decibel levels on Sunday mornings. Enough with the bells and the talking and the singing, people! I was out drinking the night before, and I need my beauty sleep.
</awaiting lightning strike>
@17 – louder than the demons screaming at the 7th circle of hell. Pretty …damn … loud. There is definitely seems to be a proportional relationship between their dBs and how many glasses of wine/beers I had the night before.
yes b yo! It has been an ongoing saga between the Snatch and those noise haters! It came to my attention when The Omni was trying to kill The Hogs show on Sunday nights at Escafe. I got into many a heated arguement with the managers over there at that hotel. AT the time I was assured that we were not breaking any noise ordinance… then Hump Day Bump was started and… when it first started you could here the music past Miller’s yes… but nobody complained until the poularity of the event increased. So the Omni is a hater and I am sure other businesses are to blame about the noise complaints. HATERS! People that live on the mall are not the ones bitching about the noise its the competiting businesses. If only everybody would learn how to play nice and work together… see you tonight!
I don’t think the noise ordinance will have ant effect on OXO. Even if there was someone to complain within a reasonable distance, the size of their patio would mean that even if they had something like 90 decibels coming out the front door it’d be under the legal threshold by the time it got to any public space at the sidewalk. I’m assuming that the police can’t come onto private property uninvited to take measurements? Plus their speakers all face away from the door.
I’ve heard that the Thursday night thing there is going to happen… anyone care to confirm? [if you can pull yourself away from your lead-based jello]
Another intriguing story illustrating the larger debate: to what extent do we allow governments to restrict our rights based on the government’s perception of the benefit to our “neighbors”:
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Feb20/0,4670,GreenDispute,00.html
ummm so yeah the “police” can come into any public establishment… it is private property but they do serve liquor which puts them under the scrutiny of ABC special agents, law enforcement, etc… I am certain as well that this is not targeted towards OXO but beef that alot of haters have had with Escafe for a very long time. When I lived in San Diego the “gaslamp district” actually rode council to pass an ordinance permitting noise within the district…not because of the music… but because of all the bottles being dumped into recycling at early hours of the morning. which makes me think… is recycling bottles in CVILLE outdoors now against city code? spin spin sugar.
Some of us have lived downtown since before outdoor music was an issue. So, the “don’t move there” argument, while valid for some, isn’t for others. Some of us also specifically chose to be on Water or Market Street because of the lower noise level. I’m actually no more than a block from Oxo (as are 3 or 4 other apartment buildings; there are at least 30 or so apartments in that area, more if you count the condos at Lewis and Clark). I’ve never heard any noise from Oxo. They do a fantastic job of keeping the sound contained. I seriously doubt they’d be a target. Now, the outside concerts at Mono Loco? That’s going to be an issue. Especially given the fact that, for some reason, they seem to think acts need to be amplified on the teeny, weeny patio. If they’d just kill the amplifiers, I doubt they’d even have a problem; they’re really uncessary to begin with. As for Escafe, they seem to have become sort of specific target for the police. It’s been that way for years. This certainly won’t help matters.
So, i guess it doesn’t effect street performers during the day as is evident by the minstrel that’s out there today.
I think somebody has to complain first…
is it the bucket man or the loudest flautist? or the bantard? or is it the french island tunes man? WHICH MINSTREL IS IT?
Damn, parlie. You know your minstrels, dude.
I thought the bucket guy* had passed on (PBUH if so). Was that just a rumor?
*meaning the harmonica-playing, bucket-strap-tapping fellow
schaweet
As for Escafe, they seem to have become sort of specific target for the police
Absolutely ridiculous. One particular officer (who is leaving the force soon anyway) might have it out for *me*specifically, not escafé. There’s a big difference.
/i had minstrels once. doctor gave me an ointment.
I dunno. Admittedly, I haven’t seen it lately, but back when Sean and Doug ran the place, seemed as if the police were awfully quick to step in whenever Escafe had music at night. With the doors closed, I never thought it was an issue. I certainly never thought it was any louder than what comes out of Miller’s (a place I’ve never seen the police). In that respect, Escafe did seem targeted. But that may just be my perception of the olden days.
I have a problem with the police ticketing the individual performer when they’re within the confines of a particular establishment. If b ‘yo had been a 10 piece band, would 10 tickets have been written? One for each member? That doesn’t seem fair when its the cumulative effect of their individual efforts that violates the ordinance… what about audience contributions to a violation through clapping, etc.? But then ticket the band as a whole? How’s that work if it isn’t a separate legal entity through incorporation, etc.? Who gets hauled off if the fine doesn’t get paid? I think there needs to be the application of some legal principle like respondeat superior to rest responsibility on the establishment itself [I know, no tort involved counselors, just sayin']. How is a dj, for example, to know when he plugs into a restaurants sound system, that the product of his struggles isn’t being amplified downstream beyond his control? If he happens to be in the bathroom when the police show up, does criminal liability fall to whomever is standing nearest the thing with the buttons, dials and flashing lights? If not then the best defense for the wayward would be “the dj just ran out the back!, let me see if I can turn this thing down”
Escafe has been a target in the past, right around the time grrl is talking about. I worked for Sean and Doug in 1994 the year they bought it, and I remember harassment way back then, even when FAF was right outside their door.
and grrl, people who move downtown on or VERY close to the mall should expect noise, you knew even ten years ago that the mall was growing at a very rapid pace.
Not on the Water St. or Market St. sides, Caroline. There really wasn’t anything on the side streets that long ago. Nada. Noise in the form of folks outside and cars was very much to be expected, even back then. Not the more constant sound of amplified music late night midweek. And really, that’s still rare. Thank heavens. Moving to the mall itself, back then? There was certainly was a lot more going on, on that side. The whole Jewish Mother thing was around that time.
everyone should be punished
I think this is a very flawed “solution” to a “problem” that seems really minimal. Early morning construction & especially the Pavilion, all which seem to be excluded affect many more people and are louder than most venues & such. Like I mentioned in a previous post, not every restaurant needs to or should have certain types of entertainment, especially outside & late if the band or space is loud. I am really appalled that the Pavilion is not included. This just goes to show how FOS the City Council can actually be on minor matters that can seriously affect the creative vibe of a town know for being musically oriented. I wanted to go to the town meeting, but I had to work late that evening & I’m bummed I could not express my opinion to the Council. I must say I’m biased, since I enjoy some styles of music that can’t / won’t be in many venues in town, but this could directly affect my personal choice of what type of entertainment I want & can see here in Charlottesville. Hopefully, this will be one of those “we can & we will, but we’ll let you off with a warning” type deals.
Horsefang, Valkeryie & Suzukiton @ Outback Lodge this Saturday. March . 8th & hope you caught the P-Lander Z show. It was FANTASTIC!
Apparently, although I don’t know anything more than the very spotty references I’ve heard in the news, there is a separate agreement between the city and Capshaw which prevents the Pavilion being included in the ordinance. I’m completely guessing, but the contract which transferred the property to Capshaw undoubtedly assured that it would be allowed by the city to operate under certain promised conditions. A new sound ordinance originating from the city council would put the city in violation of promises made in the contract, as it would likely prevent the Pavilion’s usage for the purpose for which the city leased the premises to Capshaw. I managed to find an article mentioning a 20-year loan rolled into the deal, but no specific mention of the duration of the lease. I’m presuming that any attempt to regulate sound, beyond the “shows must end by 11 p.m.” agreement in the lease, would be up for renegotiation at the end of the lease (whenever that is). So the fault is less with the current city council, than with the city officials who approved the Pavilion deal without taking into account the noise problems being created for residents of Belmont. The current council’s hands are effectively tied for the rest of the duration of the lease. Which sucks for Belmont families trying to put young kids to bed at a reasonable hour on a school night, if there is a concert going on. The transfer of property only happened in 2004, with first shows under Coran’s managment in 2005. I’m betting that most families in that area moved to Belmont long before it became a major concert venue.
ThatGrrl , thanks for the info. I kinda figured some deal like that was made. I probably wouldn’t be so against the Pavilion if, it had been designed better & had a better variety of music, but to be honest I was not a big fan of Starr Hill, don’t really like Satellite or the Pavilion all because the all seem to have been half-heartedly done (see my previous post under “CVS” for clarification.
I seem to recall the pavilion lease is for 40 years, but I might be wrong on that.
Is there a former debate teamer out there that wants to orate at the 1st amendment wall REALLY LOUDLY, so that I can call the cops on you and get a whole noise ordinance vs. free speech thing going? No?
Is there a former debate teamer out there that wants to orate at the 1st amendment wall REALLY LOUDLY, so that I can call the cops on you and get a whole noise ordinance vs. free speech thing going? No?
“You must be the change you want to see in the world.”
—Mahatma Gandhi
this ordinance needs to be focused on the REAL noise problem, which is landscapers, gardeners and construction workers starting machines that are over 75 decibels at 7am. I mean come on guys, if YOU’RE wearing protective ear-gear, then perhaps you might have thought you could have been waking me up at 7:45 this morning
The noise ordinance will only affect Neighborhood Commercial Corridors. There are only two small areas with this zoning designation Fontain and JPA area and what is now being called Downtown Belmont. There are only two music venues within these boundries; Durty Nellies and Bel Rio. So, unless your getting your loud rocks off at only these two venues out of the 35 total places that serve up music you might be affected. Durty Nellies never gets complaints because sound doesn’t leave the building and the environment is of mostly renters. The Belmont situation has been the exact opposite. And to say that people should move if they don’t like the new neighbors is hardly a solution. If the new neighbors aren’t very neighborly then what? That’s what has happened here with this ordinance.