….well, not yet at least. The Alabama State Insurance board thinks state employees with a BMI>35 will be charged $25/month for health insurance (currently free). IF Virginia followed suit, the 65% of state employees that are currently overweight or obese (not a lie, although this is according to 2004 data) could contribute $3,453,120 back to the state coffers. This is no laughing matter!
This brings up a host of issues. Firstly, will this rule lead to lower obesity, and how can you quantify that today? Secondly, if obesity is incurs an additional insurance fee, why not other maladies and lifestyle choices that severely impact your health. Smokers alone are 24.6% of the VA population and could thus contribute $43,532,867 back to the state.
I say go ahead with the additional fees (all you libertarians are snickering aren’t you?). Our lives are full of additional fees that are not health related, and yet we have learned to change habits or just pay the fees and quit the bitching and moaning:
- exceeded daytime minutes on XYZ cell phone plan
- when your car insurance company re-calculates your premium after you caused a rear-end collision…
- parking in a handicap spot
- late fee on a credit card
[pic]
[source: Health.com, Census.gov, CDC.gov, Virginia Center for Healthy Communities]
Popularity: 30% [?]
Tagged as: health fee, insurance, obesity tax
HOLY SHIT, this is unreal.
Sir Mix a Lot is really pissed off right about now.
if i get to pay less because I’m thin then OK
@3. i agree with you. this goes back to the issue of who makes the “standard” and how standard is it.
/grumbling about politics
If we had universal health care, and universal all you can eat lunch buffets, nobody would have to pay this tax because everyone would be fat and happy. Where is the political candidate for that agenda?
smokers are actually cheaper health-care-wise because they die sooner.
wouldn’t the same be true with fatties? oh well, tax them anyway.
At my height I would have to weigh 220lbs to get a BMI of 35. This means I would not be getting laid, and so the money I would save on birth control,KY Warming Sensations Gel, handcuffs, gags, silk scarves, feathers, blindfolds, gerbils, ball-gags and really rough rope would more than offset the $25 I would have to pay to the health insurance folks. Being fat may actually make economic sense in the current climate of recession.
@6 that is only if they die quickly. otherwise years of treatment will cost a lot of money
@6/@9 exactly. just like not wearing a motorcycle helmet. generally, either you die, or end up needing a ton of $ to recover.
Well, why not tax anorexics and bulimics for being too thin? It costs a shitload of money to get them intensive in-patient treatment (for months sometimes) to get them to eat properly and not barf it back up.
@8 you are so wrong.
@9 so we should stop treating them. like old people.
I know, let’s tax everyone for any lifestyle they have!
They already tax booze so that’s my lifestyle covered already.
Here’s some fat to chew on:
If people stopped smoking, there would be a savings in health care costs, but only in the short term. Eventually, smoking cessation would lead to increased health care costs.
It’s pretty messed up to go after the obese as if in some mindset, “Well, that’ll teach them to be fat”. The country has a culture that allows people to become obese and then decides to punish them for it. It’s like declawing your cat then punishing it when the cat then resorts to biting for self defense. Instead of taxing people for being fat, put a higher tax on junk food, fast food, processed food.
Can we get some data on SES as well? I’m going to guess that this would end up hitting low-wage people the hardest. $25 means a lot more to them, and they are most likely less able to take advantage of/gain access to resources to become healthier.
@16 Again, that strategy would tend to punish low-income people.
@16, good point, i think this shows the multi-faceted issue at hand. I agree, one thing doesn’t stop it, but I’lll take the path of least resistance and support the first step.
@18: I’d agree. Rather than penalizing people, I’d rather see incentives for more affordable fresh fruit and vegetables, especially on school menus. Public policy: sticks and carrots. Mmm….carrots.
@20: rather rather rather rather rather
@20 We need Alice Waters. Her Edible Schoolyard program is the bomb.
I tried her Edible Knickers and got heartburn.
@18: Low income people are already being punished. A double cheeseburger costing less than fresh healthy produce is just wrong wrong wrong.
@24 that was my point. so why punish them even more.
@25: Silly 26 world, with your sensible public policy prescriptions. Everyone knows that poor people just need to let the invisible hand of the marketplace pick them up by their bootstraps and carry tehm to the magical organic arugula buffet in Narnia.
@24: We don’t have to punish them more, we have to make unhealthy food more expensive and healthy food cheaper. We tax booze and cigarettes and poor people still manage to buy that.
I know, let’s tax everyone for any lifestyle they have!
A condom tax?
I say tax the hell out of fat people, but make the tax only payable in human fat tissue, which will then be converted to bio-diesel. The more they pay the more weight they lose. The IRS would have to have a lipo dept. though.
/the box I am thinking out of has not yet opened.
There already is a solution to allow poor people to get more money whenever they need it.
/I can’t tell if that is a serious website or an elaborate joke. I’m hoping for the latter.
How about having the government stop providing health care to its employees other than police officers, firefighters and teachers? If it’s just about saving money, that’s what to do.
/ducks a bit
@30: Why would you arbitrarily pick those 3 jobs?
@27 It’s an education/health care/general public welfare issue, not just a matter of changing the prices around. Think about your statement — why might poor people still buy booze, cigarettes and fast food instead of healthy food, given the choice?
Using your own logic w/r/t booze and cigarettes, making unhealthy food more expensive will not serve as a deterrent. Unhealthy food is full of simple sugars, fat, etc., obviously, and if people have been eating that their whole lives, suddenly making spinach and carrots cheaper is not going to change eating habits.
There have to be better, more creative and generous ways of addressing poverty than just changing one regressive tax into another one.
@31: Well, it could expand slightly, but the first two are the jobs where high-risk meets high-societal protection, and the third because, mostly, I have a soft spot for teachers, and they do more for society than the county clerk, etc.
But then again, I’m fucking evil.
/evil doesn’t like it.
Some people will always be salad dodgers…. it’s natural selection. Eventually they will be too fat to copulate and their DNA will thus be discontinued and be placed on an evolutionary dusty lower shelf with a red clearance sticker.
I know, I know, I know!! Let’s start a state lottery that disproportionately takes money from the poor so that we can then spend more money on public schools to teach poor kids math so that they will understand that the odds of their parents winning the lottery are astronomically stacked against them. And while we’re at it, let’s allow pay-day lenders to charge usurious interest rates to poor people who have to borrow against their pay checks because they waste their money on the lottery that they will never win.
/feeling slightly sarcastic today
Change your name to ‘Smiley, but Slighty Sarcastic’ immediately.
@34 yesterday, a friend asked me “how can i lose 10 lbs in a week?” & then proudly stated that she doesn’t eat vegetables.
the problem is, you have to be REALLY fat to be too fat to copulate. e.g., approx. 20% of pregnant women are obese.
However you look at obesity, it’s clear that it is an epidemic caused by some combination of lack of education, business forces, marketing, laziness, etc.
The question that is hard to answer is who has the burden of dealing with rising obesity. My opinion is that at some point, we have to point fingers at people who make the choice to not eat healthy, but at the same time we must provide a proper education so people can make their own decisions. I don’t know how you do that as a politician, but I’d support that thought process.
Maybe there should be a tax on insensitivity.
/often wish there were e-goats that could eat this site.
@38 I hear what you’re saying, but I just think it’s bigger than making choices about what to eat. The way people talk on here about drinking, it’s clear that many commenters/posters don’t make the healthiest decisions about their own lives, either, but I’m going to guess that their station in life allows them to balance those choices with some healthy choices, gym memberships, access to information, affordable & positive child care, etc. I’m all for a healthy dose of personal responsibility, but this is a community issue, too, and we’re all culpable.
Pointing fingers only works when it’s pointed at one’s self.
@38 re proper education:
are you saying poor people don’t KNOW that mcdonald’s is unhealthy?
there was a similarly patronizing do-gooder profiled in some magazine recently. he went to africa to educate them on proper nutrition. yeah, that’s their problem. similarly, those silly haitians, thinking dirt is healthier than fresh vegetables!
What about a tax on prehensile obesity only?
/fair warning on this one.
Maybe there should be a tax on insensitivity.
And I suppose I am now in the highest bracket there?
She’s wearing Snoopy socks…
@40, Touche, 26 World. I think we ran a poll or something and you’d be surprised to know that we have a very active group of readers.
@41 If people weren’t lazy and understood the long term effects of MCD’s, do you think they would continue to pay $7 for a happy meal or would they go make rice and beans for $1 and one hour of labor?… its the combination of those things as I said. Also, if you have a data source saying that low income people understand how unhealthy that stuff is, i’d love to see it. I’m not patronizing, I’m saying it’s a combination of factors, both social and environmental that produce obesity. Hey if I’m wrong, I’m all ears.
39: /often wish there were e-goats that could eat this site.
you and me both, dude. so many empty calories and junk food, the goats would love it and then it’d be in some goat’s belly instead of out in the (inter)world where I read it and get all upset and quit every day. Also, I just wish there were e-goats, because, WOW!
Some thors are more serious and well spoken than other thors. Its all so very confusing. And when I get confused, I eat. All and all, a very taxing situation.
We’ll recognize the one that wrote 45 because he gave away a crucial clue to his identity… apparently we have to just look for someone composed of ears. Can’t be too many of them around, especially with the rain and all.
@40: We’re all right, I was just pointing to one of the many factors that doesn’t help obesity. My initial point was don’t single out the fatties though. Anyone who chooses unhealthy lifestyles should have to pay more in health insurance. The difference with the obese is sometimes it’s not really their fault. People who drink too much however, that’s their own problem.
I was just pointing to one of the many factors that doesn’t help obesity.
Another one is gravity.
The difference with the obese is sometimes it’s not really their fault.
In 99.9% of cases, unfortunately, it is.
People who drink too much however, that’s their own problem
Alcoholism is a disease.
National health care will most likely give me little incentive to be healthier. The only way is to charge people more who are unhealthy (unlikely) or give the healthly a break. You have to pay more for life insurance if you are unhealthy.
@49: I believe less people would be obese if we had a different food culture and had to walk more. Is it their fault they live in circumstances that promote driving everywhere, sitting on your ass, and buying cheap unhealthy food?
And yes, alcoholism is a disease. But there are people who drink, smoke, do unhealthy stuff that don’t have the disease.
And yes, alcoholism is a disease.
One of the few that you get yelled at for having…
Dammint Roger, you’re an alcoholic!
Dammint Roger, you have lupus!
/rip mitch hedberg
You have to pay more for life insurance if you are unhealthy.
This is precisely the problem with private heatlh insurance. Providers have the incentives to price certain people out of coverage. A single-payer UHC system eliminates this market perversion by offering blanket coverage to everyone as a baseline.
And all insurance—public and private—features the less-risk-prone subsidizing the more-risk-prone. That’s how insurance works.
@44 don’t fast food places have nutrition information posted on the walls now? there you go.
& you’d think they would notice s correlation between eating mcdonald’s every day & being obese. poor people aren’t THAT dumb.
@49 saying “alcoholism is a disease” is like saying “i’m not fat, i’m just big-boned.”
@54, I think the point about alcoholism being a disease is about it being more of a mental illness. It’s not a disease if the same sense as, say, cancer, but it is something that can be effectively treated if it is looked at in the same vein and treated as such (i.e., a disease).
Regarding obesity, I could see the argument that the same can be said for eating. Some people I believe are seriously mentally ill regarding their food choices and consumption, but how do we differentiate that type of compulsive/addictive eating with someone who uses alcohol or drugs in the same way (i.e, not in moderation, or at the expense of their health)?
/has to leave the interwebs, but was just thinking out loud…errrr, typing out loud…
@ 55 Mostly, I agree. But alcoholism is a disease that some folks are more susceptible to than others (i.e. Native Americans). And full blown alcoholism is not determined by “drinking too much”, its defined by having physical withdrawal symptoms (mild shakes to full DTs) when one doesn’t drink.
Many forms of mental illness can set off all manner of excessive behavior (I know this empirically). But there is a disease that is alcoholism which is different than that.
@56:its defined by having physical withdrawal symptoms (mild shakes to full DTs) when one doesn’t drink.
Oh well, then I am definitely not an alkie then. Sweet! Let’s go have a drink and celebrate.
@48 There are many unhealthy decisions that can be said to be “not someone’s fault” — not just obesity. “Choice” is a relative term. I tend to land on the preventative side of things, rather than punitive. It’s a little bit easier to avoid a good bit of the paternalism that way, and hopefully, over time, there will be fewer casualties. You don’t avoid hitting low-income people hardest by saying that we should tax all unhealthy “lifestyles.”
Could we tax the rich for being to thin?
I was just saying why pick the fat to punish? Seems like discrimination. My tax suggestion might not be viable but at least I think we should try to change some things.
@60 I understand your point but how is this that different from life insurance companies charging more if you smoke or have heart disease?
@61: Because life insurance is optional.
@62 it has got to be more than that- health care is optional as well.(at least now)
Because maybe health care shouldn’t always be about cost-benefit analysis. Maybe life insurance shouldn’t be, either, but if you’re of the belief — as I am — that decent health care should be a basic right, then that’s the issue we tackle among the first.
@63: I’m sorry I thought we were talking about taxes.
@64 when you say basic, where is the end. When do you say- “we can’t afford limitless health care for everyone.”
To quote someone else “you think health care is expensive now; wait till it’s free”
What should basic health care cover? New livers for drunks, new lungs for smokers, spend a million for a 90 year olds final days. Where are the limits?
@65: Oh shit, if you re-read the post, it is about health insurance rates. The whole “obesity tax” is just Vanillavy’s title.
@66 I think the slippery slope argument is often made by people in power who are relatively unaffected by poverty. I think when there are millions of people who are completely uninsured, with no health care whatsoever, and no access to alternatives, that might be a place to start. We can talk about where it might end once we have an honest conversation about where it might *begin* for a large portion of this country.
@67: Fees and taxes are entirely different. If we’re talking about fees, then completely disregard my comments @62, 65.
@67: Yep… it’s not really a “tax”. And if anything, it’s called the “fat tax” rather than the “obesity tax” for purposes of assonance.
@70: Well, whatever you wanna call it, it’s messed up.
To quote someone else “you think health care is expensive now; wait till it’s free”
That’s simply not borne out by the data. We pay more than any other developed country, and we’re getting less for it (i.e., we’re less healthy). I’d call that a raw deal.
@72: Stan, do you have any data about the number of malpractice lawsuits and the cost of insurance doctors must buy in those other countries. I think a lot of the money we spend on doctors (through our insurance companies) goes right back to other insurance companies. I have a couple friends whose parents are doctors, and I know they have seen a huge increase in the cost of their malpractice insurance over the last few years.
@68 Sorry but saying we must “first” insure everyone without a thought to what that means is a cop out. You can’t talk about limitless health before you talk about limits of reality. Please tell me how we determine what or who gets covered; without it your “health care for everyone” just words that will never come closed to being passed.
@73: nothing off the top of my head, but a cursory google search suggests OECD has worked on that issue, too. Maybe I’ll have more time to look later.
@74: Not trying to argue for 26 world, there are any number of countries with various working nationalized health-care systems. A good starting place would be to compare them and see what works well and what doesn’t. Oh look!
@72 the use of your statistics is a canard of epic proportions. Northern Europes social system allows for a population model not repeated in other parts of the world. Also health care spending includes elective procedures such as plastic surgery and much higher maintenance pharm use in the US. There exist no place in Europe with a comparable use of technology (MRI’s, Gamma knives, and others) and our demographic population model. To be fair you should compare all of europe with the us. That would show we spend more and get more.
Many have great health care in the country and the poor are covered in a limited basis (not preventative which is an enormous waste). I think you are dead on, Echo about the cost of insurance for malpractice and it’s relative cost. That does have to be addressed.
@75 cutting and paste that article doesn’t answer the question, please try again.
Ooh Stanley I think he called you a duck.
@76-7: Snappy replies do not an argument make, kemosabe. I’m trying to lay out a case for single-payer universal health care. You’re snarking back. It’s an area of public policy about which reasonable people can certainly disagree. But you’re not exactly acting reasonable.
After all the goofy fun of yesterday, all this arguing and negativity today is really disappointing.
@80: NO IT’S NOT I TOTALLY DISAGREE.
@80
Shenanigans, are you there?
WHY CAN”T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!
@82: Oui oui
You aren’t not laying out a case, you simple saying “look over there, see it can be done”. Is the US system flawed- yes it is but graphing on another country system is not the answer. Direct comparisons are very flawed in the macro sense. The US has the best Tech in the world and no rationing. Something will have to give if we go to universal care. If that happened tomorrow we would have a two tiered system overnight. Basic for everyone, and deluxe for those willing to pay for more. Just like England.
I’m not calling you the Lone Ranger either
@64 agreed. there are many ways in which i am fiscally conservative, but this isn’t one of them. in my mind, government has the duty to provide health care to it’s citizens. every other first world country agrees.
/yay politics
@84 The UK would be more accurate, not England…. you’ve just pissed off the Welsh and the Scots, and those thieving bastards up in Northern Ireland.
/well done
you’ve just pissed off the Welsh and the Scots, and those thieving bastards up in Northern Ireland
And they’re all healthy and shit and coming for you. ARRRRRG!
@80, 82
Shenanigans,
Sorry… my patience extends to only twenty times hitting F5.
Beg your pardon for the the intrusion and the aside, especially after humiliating debacle of yesterday.
However:
Caspari, that fine establishment soon to be an advertiser no doubt, is out of espadrilles in any size.
Sending them was of course in goodfellowship and jest, but you must be disappointed somewhat. While though it were possible for me to procure a pair in 8.5, perhaps even stripey and with better soles (i.e., rope not rubber), it occurs to me that humor aside, Labour Day is soon upon us, and you couldn’t wear espadrilles after that date in any case, even in the South, even under the depressingly lax standards of dress Cville sets itself.
So, is there some other small gift I may substitute for the botched one (it achieving neither a glass-slipper Cinderella fit NOR a laugh), to ratify my bona fides and honour the obligation i incurred?
Please let me know; and i think that after sending, i’ll drop from this pleasant but tilting exchange.
besmirched,
otterdung
@86 UK, OK? Good day!
@85….Chad you need to read up…. the Gov in UK doesn’t provide anything. You pay from your salary 10-12% every month whether you are sick or not and that cash funds the National Health Service…. ie paid for by the people, and totally separate to taxes.
@74 I think that reasonable people are capable of formulating what a basic level of coverage and accessibility might look like without having to resort to the lazy “we don’t know where it would end, so it should never begin” argument. There are an estimated almost 10 million (accounted for) children alone who are currently uninsured, and for a nation as wealthy as ours, that is a horror from any angle, be it cost-benefit, socialist, humanitarian, public welfare, whatever.
Check out http://www.ramusa.org/index.html for an idea of what some people think of as a decent beginning, without being weighed down by “where it will end.”
@88 not besotted?
@92
besottage is a costly hobby;
and as a public one, and an anonymous one,
seems not to repay the expense in other than embarrassment.
@88: How about a pink pony with dancing squirrels on its back with bouquets of cotton candy grasped in their little paws? If it’s not any trouble…But not a FAT pony.
OD why are you embarassed? It was thrilling. You had all the Spicy Bears peeing their pants in anticipation.
@90 that sounds exactly like a tax to me. what’s the difference, other than semantics?
Let’s leave semen out of this Chad and stay on topic.
Tax my fat pony.
/excellent band name.
@88, 94: I just got all the pictures which Spicy Bear should I send them to? Kyle, Thor #734, Francesco?
@ 97 Semen? He was merely asking vas the deferens.
@100 … that was painful.
Nice one BYo…. at first glans I didn’t get it.
Don’t be so testi Chad. Sheesh.
@91 I am only against universal health care until someone tells me how it will work in the US. I am willing to change my mind if someone can explain to me how it will WORK. Just telling me “it’s for the Chillldern!” That’s not a policy, it’s emotion. I’ll even pay more taxes if I feel the system is fair and can be implemented.
@99
i would consider it a personal favor
for a photo of the text of the note enclosed in the package to NOT be included.
though the contents of the note are certainly already in the public domain,
and could be reported, i would prefer to omit any picture of the text.
do-able?
Chad always gets the shaft on this site.
@94
i’ll see what i can do.
if anything else pops into your mind in the meantime, drop me a line.
@105 Oops. I am l’indescrète.
@107: Were you at SS last night?
@109 was there pale boy who hair cut was short on the sides with a long forelock?
@108
handwriting and all that.
@109
sorry to have missed it.
@general
i’m sorry for the sidebars.
i am slender, but sympathize with your will to continue the obesity thread.
@105: You’re lucky I decided to check back one last time before pushing send. I will not include the picture of the card.
The ball is in your court Chad.
Choad Day likes sementics.
@112
Thank you, echo, for that kindness.
@113 Does Chad play home or away games
@115: You have neat handwriting. Was that a stamp?
@110: A who? With a what?
I can’t stop snickering at that Shen… it’s so bad its good.
was there pale boy who hair cut was short on the sides with a long forelock?
That is Helmy, the elf that wanted to be a dentist. He wasn’t there.
but sympathize with your will to continue the obesity thread.
Nah. Its past a hundred comments and as such been jacked into a penis pun thread. No worries.
/corposum diem!
Well apparently Francesco’s email address isn’t as easy to figure out as Kyle’s. Mr. R, you should have the pics.
@118: I’ve already been accused of being 12 today so let’s roll with it. Choad. I said choad.
@117
thank you and yes.
Chad Day only supports health insurance foreskin ny people.
@122: Cool. What was the name of the book?
Why is Otter being so secretive now….
/me haz suspishens
Hmmmm…. Should have gone with “carpe scrotum”.
Chad went home early… he was going to write something but his pen is broke.
Snort!
Whatever happened to Mintyfresh?… I really liked him. I thought he would come back when all the fuss died down.
@104 Surprise, I’m not a policy genius. Don’t oversimplify the power of emotion or necessity to spark change. I’m not trying to change your mind, and it’s not my job to explain things to you.
What I am doing is going out in the world and trying to effect some change in my own way, support policies I believe in, spark some discussion, think about how things *could* work and then do what I can to make that happen. I don’t feel the need to publicize my public works/job description on this blog, but you can bet that I do more than just whine that “it’s for the children.”
“You need to explain it to me” is a nice high seat on which to perch; I’m sure the view is lovely, but I prefer ground level. If you want to shove me in some Sally Struthers corner, that’s your prerogative, but it doesn’t really move the problem along, does it.
/done and done.
@127 OMG Shen’s doing drugs online.
I can’t keep
itup with these puns.I’m so glad that Emord is handling the arguing with 26 so that I am free to flirt with otters and talk about penises.
@ 131 I know, we are way a head of you.
It’s been a very schlong day.
@123
She, i think it was volume I of Burton’s Anatomy of Melancholy in an 1823 (maybe 1833) edition. Honestly, i forget, but can check if it’s important to you. Nice leather on the cover, though. It may have been rather an early printing of Voltaire’s Dictionnaire Philosophique. Both were laying around the house and somewhat trashed, with bindings shot.
@124
just embarrassed generally about the whole bloody thing, not secretive…
also keenly sensible of Suggestion-Box comments,
and of highjacking the thread with … ummmm … mutual explorations.
gnight all–enuf damage control for today.
@135: No need to be embarrassed. She was genuinely touched when she opened the present. Granted it’s because oy was groping her, but really, she was touched.
On topic (well, at least more on topic than most recent comments):
Why does the image say Colorado is the leading state? Aren’t they losing the obesity race?
/suck it Tennessee
Flooze has quite the dick shun.
@ 134 Tell me about it, Ive been up since the cock crowed, which is hard.
@135: I will pretend it was the Voltaire. Also, don’t pay any attention to Suggestion Box. The people who run the site thought the whole thing was interesting and amusing so they posted about it. Not everyone has to think it was as fun but to each his own, it’s no reflection on you.
I’m surprised one of the admins hasn’t come into this thread and man handled us out.
For sure, they usually get a bit prickly about these sorts of things. “Spare the rod” and all…
But that would make it seem like a dicktatorship or even a cummunist regime.
@141: They can’t until the gives us a new FFA. The other one disappeared into oblivion, not to be seen again until they fix the archives.
Back to fat people!
errrrrr….Echo…. read 141 again.
Still, they can be such weenies. Probably because they are a bit chubby.
/jacked back on topic?
@140
last one before i go.
i made a couple calls about renting a pony, but none of the places would allow me to (humanely) spray-paint it pink. the squirrels i can get, and the cotton-candy, but without actually tying or glue-ing them to the pony… it’s a wash.
if i enclose a few decent cigars for Kyle, may i send one more small private package to CareBear offices: the lead printer’s-stamp which you seemed to enjoy?
I meant, back to the fat PeOpLE
148: otter, you’re such a sweetie, but you’re learning an important villain lesson here: private is a word shenanigans doesn’t really understand…. privates, maybe, but not private.
@150
as they say: “i’m on it”.
if i enclose a few decent cigars for Kyle
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar… but probably not in this thread.
@ 148 So you are sending shen a printing tool?
/cant seem to stop.
@148: Don’t send Kyle crap. Where do you want me to send the shoes?
@151: Whoa, one package and “you’re on it”? Nice work with Shen then.
@150: You’re so right! I am a bigmouthed whore!
Vanillavy must be standing proud, in the knowledge that this turned into such a big post.
Don’t stroke his ego.
They can’t until the gives us a new FFA
Ask, and you shall receive.
As an example of how Universal Health Care (which is different than unlimited health care) might work:
check out:
http://www.oregon.gov/OHPPR/HSC/current_prior.shtml
The Oregon Health Plan is not perfect and might not even be good. But its a fine place to begin a conversation about how a system _might_ be implemented. It recognizes one critical reality: if you’re going to provide some health care for everyone (and, lets be clear about this; we, as a society, should provide some health care to everyone) you can’t provide all health care for everyone. We simply don’t have the resources (much less the actual money that we’re willing to spend). We simply cannot provide open ended care to all people. It would cripple our economy and our medical infrastructure. The Oregon plan is far beyond a lot of ideas in that it incorporates (and has from its inception) rationing.
Rationing usually brings any conversation about health care to a full stop since its a distasteful idea to many. It already happens, effectively, though. That there isn’t a government office charged with making specific decisions about what an individual does and does not get in terms of treatment or diagnostic testing does not mean that such decisions are not made on a regular basis in a more decentralized manner.
As for the original post on this thread: its a barn door after the cows are gone sort of idea. It doesn’t get at the causes or reasons, just punishes some folks for a combination of bad choices, bad policies, bad education and bad responses by our society/government/health care “system” and food systems.
@154
just toss the shoes away, we could ask no more of them after all this.
@153
i don’t normally do vulgarity, but b/c it’s B-Yo:
impressed by the tool? it’s hanging around, but shrivelled from disuse; just needs to be moistened on a pad to make it’s mark.
@161: ewwwwwwwwwww. otter, otter otter…..
@156: anytime, honey. I’m happy to be the prudish foil to your colorful comments if it yields such amazing responses as that one.
@161
@162
sorry… really i am. i was provoked. it wasn’t me.
@161
@162
sorry… really i am. i was provoked. it wasn’t me.
nor was it funny. part of why i don’t ‘do’ crass.
Wow, 102 comments and only 2 address the issue of poverty and none point out the irony if putting additional financial burden on people whose condition may very well be a strong indicator of their lower economic status. Hmmm. Why might this be? Google it.
It would be way more interesting than reading the comments here.
it’s okay, od. you’re still fine by me.
Everybody better step off my man otter.
Its aeet dung, rock on witcho bad self. i got your back. you put your mind and heart on your sleeve where it belongs, just like me. never be afraid to take one too many steps. this site needs more trippers like you. and for the love of god don’t beat yourself up. you’ve got flavor!
/or we could all just be anonymously proper and dandy, like an e-church… How. Nice.
OD you need to toughen up a bit… you were a force to be reckoned with before this espadrille escapade… gather yourself and stop being a whipped puppy.We love you. Get over it.
/I keep having these subliminal images of the wildebeest at the back of the herd that stops to tie its laces and BAM…. down it goes with a pair of lions sucking on its face and a crowd of hyenas texting in the background, waiting their turn. I have dibs on your liver… the Chianti is ready to go.
OMG… creepy…. same wavelength dude…. didn’t see 166.
but… you’re gonna eat his liver?
Parlie… I hear that’s where the alcohol should be.
better evil? liver eater! soooo close, yet so far. emord, help me out.
oh man that is close. it makes me excited, in the palindrome area of the brain.
So who did you bonk that’s causing you so much angst mc?
The guilt is blocking the palindromic area of your brain…. confess and you will be freed and yet again able to go both ways…
OMFG…was it Michelle Obama?
angst? no, no, you’ve got me all wrong!! in any case, it’s no one you know. or at least, no one that I know that you know, if you know what i mean, and even i dont’ know anymore.
But you don’t know me…. perhaps you slept with me.
Show me on the doll where the palindrome touched you uoydeh coute mordnil apehter ehwllo deht noem wohs.
/dusty!
Screw em. I had so many UVA employees when on the bus hitting me in the head cause they were too fat to stay inside the aisle I thought I was concussed.
@ 180 let me guess - you worked at the hospital at some point?
Yes. Jesus christ it was unreal!
@180 AF…Maybe you are concussed, and this is an alter-reality caused by a huge wobbly buttock hit to your cranium. It’s possible n’est ce pas? Or perhaps you are actually on life support in the intensive care unit, and all your relatives are keening at your bedside, frantically trying to romanticize the fact that you were felled by a giant arse. I mean how is that going to look in the paper?… donations to Weight Watchers in lieu of flowers. Its just wrong dude… stay off the bus.Buy a bike.
I have family members that have been killed by the failing gruesom machine that socialized health care is.
Make it affordable across the line, but keep it competitive, let the hospitals and doctors have an incentive to keep you alive not to mention healthy.
@ 182 based on years of extensive observation (as a former driver of said buses) it amuses and saddens me to see how ironic a lifestyle a good part of health-system workers here lead. (and don’t even get me started on the ones who smoke!)
/stories of people being too large to climb up the bus stairs, i have them
/jack-back of sorts
@182. Good call. I was thinking about it anyway, ‘less I become what I admonish.
Ha… Buster… that is nothing…. you have stories, but I have pictures of BYo NAKED. I googled… what?… oh!… gotta go… back in a minute.
AF…. forgive me if I offend CLR&R in any way as you seem such a fan, but why do you continue to play over there? Seriously…. anyone that can use the word admonish in context and spell it correctly is surely worthy of some better company?
/elitist? fuck yeah.
I dunno…I’m a masochist. I’m slowly weening off of it. I just get a kick when people think I’m more of the Anti-Christ than Obama is.
As a libertarian, I have no problem with this. Those of us who act responsibly and live healthily have been subsidizing people who make poor personal decisions for decades.
We (as in the insular we that I am not part of, just in my brain) like you better when you are snorting coke off of hookers tits. As a libertarian. Or as a librarian. Comma. Semi-colon. Their I said its.
191: That’s sweet. Since I don’t have catastrophic coverage, I can just forward all emergency room bills to Ethan @ the internet dot com? Lord almighty, how you’ve saved me. I’m gonna go read Ender’s Game while spanking off to my pile of Ayn Rand memorabilia. THANKS!
I leave here for a couple of days and all hell breaks loose. Nice going! LWNHLTH!
@193 Lose some weight, fatty.
I absolutely love it when ethan and stanley get into a liberterian vs. socialist throwdown. politics!! keep it up guys, you’re making me smile.
you’re making me smile.
I’m setting the over/under for mc no longer smiling at the internetz at 4.5 hours. Any takers?
i will accept your bet, sir.
/don’t know what over/under means.
Do you think it will take more than 4.5 hours (over) or less than 4.5 hours (under) for you to get mad and quit the internet?
Dont hate the internet, hate the game.
I accept the over part.
I say Less.