Respecting Each Other

 

It seems we are more frequently seeing things that we would consider personal attacks.  It’s been very frustrating for all of us lately to see people taking opinions and turning them into personal issues.  This is not acceptable and it’s not something that we’ve ever encouraged or want to have on this site.

If you are new to the site, we ask you to read and abide by The Code which we initially asked you to follow because of the same issues we are seeing now.  This site is notorious for being harsh to new commenters, whether we want to admit it or not.  We can’t force you to do anything; and we will only moderate obvious personal attacks, libel and slander. Part of the problem is people who aren’t vocal take things too personally, but we need to find a balance.

We’ve always wanted to make this site entertaining and informative for people.  Things will run off topic, but as we get more commenters and readers, we need to be more accepting of differences.

On the politics issue, we know some of you want it, but at the same time, we’re worried that the site will easily degrade into personal attacks.  Each time a national issue comes up, things inevitably trend towards personal altercations, not meaningful discussions about ideas.  There is a big difference.  There are plenty of sites you can go fight with Red or Blue people.  We don’t want to control things, but a lot of you have said in the past that politics spoils the party, and we believe that.

On opinions about businesses, food and other relative things, take everything with a grain of salt. Our writers are not out to get anyone or to better themselves.  We want to make Charlottesville the best place to live, ever.  Think of a critique as informative and areas for improvement.  If our writers are wrong about something, the commenters will let you know.  This site is about interaction and we welcome everyone’s opinions, right or wrong.  The community wants HONEST reviews, so we will continue to give them.

As always this site is yours, so we want your feedback on these issues, but this is a call to action per se.  If you want to make cVillain a better, richer and more dynamic community, then you need to support it.  We are welcome to suggestions, but this is very frustrating that we have to continue to deal with these issues.  Please let us know your thoughts.

Some basic thoughts:

- New commenters: Don’t come in disputing a long time commenter.  Join the conversation with something supportive.  You can be critical, but be positive.

- Regulars:  Please accept other’s ideas.  Not everyone frequently comments online and most don’t want to defend themselves. If someone comes on and critiques you, brush it off.  They probably won’t comment again anyway.

- Everyone: Play nice, no personal attacks and let’s try to make this a better and more supportive community for everyone and everything in Charlottesville

Popularity: 23% [?]

Tagged as: ,

199 Responses to “Respecting Each Other”

  1. 18 Sep 2008 at 8:48 amecho said:

    I mcquit.

  2. 18 Sep 2008 at 8:53 amuva non-douche said:

    @1, Are you talking about last night? Because you were pretty dunzo by the time I saw you haha
    PS-While I respect every person’s right to be a complete asshole, I appreciate people encouraging behavior like this as well. Thanks for taking one for the team, Thor.

  3. 18 Sep 2008 at 9:10 amjust say grrrrrrr said:

    Honestly, I’d rather people be jerks and stay on topic, than be cliquey idiots off topic.

  4. 18 Sep 2008 at 9:12 amTwoOFour said:

    I am sorry Thor, you may be one of the new Thors so maybe you weren’t around when we all decided that we weren’t playing by ANY rules.

  5. 18 Sep 2008 at 9:18 amThor said:

    @4 - We’ve always had the same rules which are be nice, no personal attacks and no libel/slander.

  6. 18 Sep 2008 at 9:18 amChris said:

    With respect to basic thoughts: if one is a new commenter, how is he/she to know who the long time commenters are that shouldn’t disputed? (Totally serious here.)

  7. 18 Sep 2008 at 9:20 amThor said:

    @6 - I guess, just don’t come out swinging guns if you are new to the scene.

  8. 18 Sep 2008 at 9:21 amChris said:

    @7 - good enough.

  9. 18 Sep 2008 at 9:30 ambelmont yo said:

    I think the lurkers should absolutely dispute the long time commenters, especially if they have a legitimate dispute. What kind of silly rule is that? Is there some sort of seniority here that matters? Im thinking… well… no. Its just the internet.

    /swing those guns!

  10. 18 Sep 2008 at 9:44 amphilbert said:

    Well, it’s one thing to bring about a healthy debate in a polite, non-aggressive fashion, and it’s another to be a complete prat about it… I try to write on these forums like I’d conversate in real life: sometimes snippy, sometimes sarcastic, but always in a way that won’t cause someone to legitimately hit me.

  11. 18 Sep 2008 at 9:49 amVanillavy said:

    I agree with b’yo @ 9. I think what Thor is trying to say is that cVillain is like a big party that people have attended on a regular basis for a long time. So when someone new comes in that nobody knows, there is some form of “netiquette” required to have everyone welcome them in.

    I mean you wouldn’t go to a party you were invited to by a new friend and as soon as you arrive start arguing with the regulars right? I think its kind of like that.

    The regulars and the cliques should play nice though. You might just find yourselves all alone on here one day and how fun could that be?

  12. 18 Sep 2008 at 9:51 amff said:

    I guess Thor’s no personal attacks/libel rule doesn’t apply to Coran or Terry (from the Outback). This seems like a reaction to Shenanigan’s tantrum. This place is like Animal Farm : All are equal, but some more equal than others.

  13. 18 Sep 2008 at 9:59 amTuffy McFucklebee said:

    I think Thor is putting this out there as a cautionary tale to newbies. I read it as “If you’re new to the site and come out swinging, be prepared for a battle of words especially if your target is a long-timer”.

    So, young David, ready your sling.

  14. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:09 ameffinhippie said:

    I’d rather sling than swing.

  15. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:21 amStanley said:

    I’m as surprised as anyone that Thor would have this become a swinging website.

  16. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:24 ambangin' drums said:

    Assholes are like opinions. I bet half of you contribute to “the rant” and whine the night away.

  17. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:44 amEthan said:

    It’s the internet. Who gives a shit? Where is shen’s rant? I should get some popcorn.

  18. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:51 amEmord Nilap said:

    I wonder how many Thors have quit?

  19. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:51 am26 world said:

    I think many people on here seem to have different definitions of what qualifies as “disagreeing with another’s opinions” and “attacking.” The tone on here falls well within the snark spectrum, and so it’s difficult to both disagree and not address someone personally (hence, it gets personal). Because we don’t have actual tone, facial expressions, etc., all we have are the words on the screen to deduce meaning or intention, so when many of those words are infused with bite and snark, it’s natural to mirror that back. Opinions are very often personal issues — that’s what makes them opinions.

    I’m with @9. I think an easier rule for both new and old commenters would simply be “don’t give out what you’re not prepared to get back.”

  20. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:58 ambelmont yo said:

    @ 16 Well that wasn’t very nice. I may have to whine about it tonight after I issue my weekly rant. Socks and sandals. So. Mad!

    /wont someone give me an apolitical hug?

  21. 18 Sep 2008 at 11:30 amDr. rotinaJ said:

    don’t engage in a battle of wits with a fool lest he prove you his equal.

  22. 18 Sep 2008 at 11:38 amdarkstar said:

    I think we should limit our personal attacks to fictional characters. On an unrelated note, I heard that Cap’n Crunch killed a guy and made it look like an accident.

  23. 18 Sep 2008 at 11:48 amotterdung said:

    @22
    i did, with a couple other touch on harry-potter inappropriately touching on others, in another thread.

    then again, aren’t we ALL fictional characters with assumed names?

    Cap’n Crunch rocks. he would kick the sh*t out of any teletubby that came his way.

    /rum, sodomy, and the lash

  24. 18 Sep 2008 at 11:50 amotterdung said:

    and does anyone understand why curious george’s owner tucks his yellow jumpsuit INTO his cowboy boots? did he pick that up from Brokeback Mountain?

  25. 18 Sep 2008 at 11:52 amEmord Nilap said:

    @23 you are in serious need of a prison thread. We get it, the thought of young boys having sex with each other excites you. Can we move on?

  26. 18 Sep 2008 at 11:56 amotterdung said:

    i’d characterize that as a personal attack, eh wot?

    what fun!

  27. 18 Sep 2008 at 12:23 pmcaroline said:

    Thor#42, I think we should have an updated poll on the politics issue. That poll was last January and if I recall it was tied. You yourself said we have many more people visiting/lurking/commenting on the site, so things evolve and change. I vote for a new poll. Anyone else McGree??

  28. 18 Sep 2008 at 12:37 pm26 world said:

    @27 I definitely agree in the sense that it seems like politics is being defined as anything that is “serious” or debate-inducing.

  29. 18 Sep 2008 at 12:40 pmduckduckgoose said:

    The problem with comparing it to a party is that you’re comparing it to a party.

    You guys remember this? It doesn’t matter who said it, but is rather an example of the attitude I’ve seen:

    And I’m sorry but if you don’t contribute to the site as much as others, you have no credibility . You’re just a lurker that pipes up once in awhile.

    Okay, so how’s a lurker gonna introduce themselves to the rest of the party? Good question. You can’t sidle up to someone and chat them up about holy-cow-your-skirt-is-adorable-did-you-get-that-at-Bittersweet? eventually easing yourselves into sarcasm-laden, opinionated discussion about everything Charlottesville.

    You have to pipe up every once in a while. Get comfortable. And no one’s gonna read your stupid comment unless it’s got an opinion, and a good one. Most of the time the lurkers are taken to the curb and left out in itty bitty pieces in a cardboard box just cause a regular disagrees. Not because they were rude.

  30. 18 Sep 2008 at 12:43 pmHighly Opinionatedly High said:

    Remember everyone, this is YOUR site! You need to support it and nurture it!

    That way Kyle and Spicy Bear can be a profitable company.

    But never forget, it’s YOUR site and cVillain really cares about you and the community you live in!

    Go cVillain!

  31. 18 Sep 2008 at 12:43 pmStanley said:

    Most of the time the lurkers are taken to the curb and left out in itty bitty pieces in a cardboard box just cause a regular disagrees

    Is that true? Even when I firmly disagree with someone, I try to be cordial. I’m reminded of the recent musician thread. The Professor showed up and was grating and grated upon. But I still offered the guy some punch and cookies. He stuck around and chatted for quite some time.

  32. 18 Sep 2008 at 12:46 pmduckduckgoose said:

    Well, it’s not a rule, it’s a pattern. Not everyone does it. For a good long time, there was a set amount of commenters. Lately there’s been an explosion of new ones, and so of course it’s gonna get a little rowdy. We’re all still feeling each other out.

    /feel free to fix that last comment, S

  33. 18 Sep 2008 at 12:47 pm26 world said:

    @31 Did you remember to spike the punch?

  34. 18 Sep 2008 at 12:50 pmStanley said:

    @33: I just let echo stand near it for awhile. Dude exudes alcohol.

    /just kidding echo! not a personal attack! tee hee!

  35. 18 Sep 2008 at 1:03 pmTuffy McFucklebee said:

    @22 - Cap’n Crunch and his asbestos cereal shredded the roof of my mouth the last time we hung out. I think it was his fleet and a million tiny murderous sabers with one thing on their mind: destroy epithelial cells and tooth enamel.

  36. 18 Sep 2008 at 1:14 pmotterdung said:

    @35
    pederast!

    [cf, PW @25]

  37. 18 Sep 2008 at 1:34 pmTuffy McFucklebee said:

    @36 - dungo, your mysterious footnotes allude me. How’d I get to be a pederast?!

  38. 18 Sep 2008 at 1:40 pmotterdung said:

    by speaking of anything related to children with humor;
    i was mocking @25 for calling me one.

    captain crunch nodules are sharper than a serpent’s tooth, granted.

  39. 18 Sep 2008 at 1:48 pmparlie said:

    oh good, footnotes.

    millennia from now, when neptunian astronauts find the internet in an old vodka bottle deposited at the base of the chesapeake glacier, they’ll know that we were at least advanced enough to confuse each other.

  40. 18 Sep 2008 at 1:51 pmotterdung said:

    @39
    i’ve missed your acid wit.

    /ibid, infra

  41. 18 Sep 2008 at 1:53 pmparlie said:

    thanks, i had to take it to west virginia for a few days to get it sharpened.

  42. 18 Sep 2008 at 1:54 pmStanley said:

    @40: It’s true you have to do a metric shitton of acid to acquire wit and wisdom of the sort brandished by Sir. Parlington, but it can be done. I advise you to proceed with caution.

  43. 18 Sep 2008 at 1:57 pmorchid said:

    @23 i am a fictional character.

    @29 my first comment was in support of “the racist rant.” maybe that’s why i was never welcomed to the party.

  44. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:01 pmotterdung said:

    @43
    supporting racist ranting will only get you lukewarm PBR on the back porch next to the broken washing machine, not frabjous welcomes. but i’m sure stanley has a more box-wine to offer you now that you’ve come clean.

  45. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:03 pmTuesday said:

    @30 Highly Opinionatedly High aka Rude Guy - Ummm…you are welcome to leave at anytime if you truly feel the only reason Spicy Bear wants people here is because Kyle wants it to do well. Other people ENJOY this site and other people that DO NOT profit in anyway put time and energy into this site. This site was started out of a love for Charlottesville and will hopefully continue to grow.

    If you actually feel Kyle is just in this for profit then you are way off base. You are welcome to your own selfish misinformed opinion, but it is just that. Kyle started this and still over a year later has yet to make a SINGLE penny - not because he can’t only because he refuses to commercialize anything or needlessly charge any villains (for things such as for profit parties, etc).

    Along with Kyle, Thor, cocoNUT, Lu Sid, Stanley, Vanillavy, parlie, Shaun @ MUSE, and Heidi at STYLE, I love what goes on at Spicy Bear and strongly believe it will always be about more than money.

    Maybe you should move on to some site like the UNCUS, cause you know they aren’t out for profit at all (Oozing with sarcasm).

  46. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:03 pmotterdung said:

    of which.
    no idea what came over me, but i bought a bottle of a NONALCOHOLIC red wine (a cabernet, i think).

    dare i open it, or will frogs rain from the heavens?

  47. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:04 pmduckduckgoose said:

    @ 43- I thought the welcome was sneaking into the kitchen and polishing off the Franzia and stale Cheetos while everyone was talking.

    /coolest welcome ever

  48. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:07 pmduckduckgoose said:

    @44 - great thing about PBR is that it tastes the same when it’s warm. I suggest giving non-alcoholic red wine to people on the back porch in the future, it’s so much more mischevious.

  49. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:10 pmmc said:

    I’m guilty of yelling at newbies (well, at least I did it that one time and still feel bad about it) but I think in general I agree with @19 where the difference between debate and attack is up for interpretation.

    I don’t think it’s like a party here, it’s more like being at a bar with an open invite list. We are not all friends. We need to be able to disagree and have conversations where new opinions are heard. This is not the same as a “personal attack.” Want to hear what that sounds like? It normally contains the word “you” and ends with a label. “You are stupid. You need to shut up. I’m better than you.” I know debates can get heated, but if there’s no name calling, no vicious slamming, it should be allowed.

    Can the next “idea” we debate be the idea about how the comment lag can be fixed? because seriously. I also would like a vigorous debate about the best places to makeout in public. I think we’ve talked about it before, but I can’t find the ARCHIVES so we might as well do it again.

  50. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:13 pmmc said:

    First, everything is great about PBR. Every. Single. Thing.

    Second, I think Tuesday’s response to HoH is kinda funny given the thread about not taking things personally. HoH is a sarcastic interloper, sure, but just let it roll of your back, it was brief and now it’s over.

  51. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:14 pmbelmont yo said:

    Ahem.

  52. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:19 pmorchid said:

    @49 bars are great because you can be mean to strangers. so i don’t know how apt an analogy we want that to be.

  53. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:23 pmotterdung said:

    @52
    if you have breasts you can be mean to strangers; if you don’t, there’s too much to lose.

  54. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:26 pmmc said:

    Well, we’ve all decided to show up at this bar, maybe we like the bartender, maybe the chairs are comfy. But I certainly don’t have to befriend everyone just because we’re all hear and I might push my way to the front from time to time.

    parlie has the best analogy. 20 strangers, picked to live on the internet and find out what happens when people stop being polite…

  55. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:26 pmmc said:

    hear? oh lordy. HERE.

  56. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:31 pmorchid said:

    @53 that works out well then! :)

  57. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:34 pmCoon-ass said:

    49) I think it’s an attack if your disagreeing with someone just to disagree with them and you habitually do that. Add to that a pinch of poking at a character’s flaws and your just being a dickhead.

  58. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:36 pmmc said:

    57: that’s called being a troll, generally. but I’m with you on the dickhead part.

  59. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:38 pmbelmont yo said:

    Oh and

    /paging “get back on topic” and his +5 caps lock key of great justice…

  60. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:40 pmotterdung said:

    @56
    oh, you’re THAT chick.
    thanks a lot–free beers don’t grow on trees, Baby.

  61. 18 Sep 2008 at 2:57 pmorchid said:

    yes i am. but i can buy my own beers.

  62. 18 Sep 2008 at 3:02 pmotterdung said:

    i am SWF, hear me roar.

    {i was just joking}

  63. 18 Sep 2008 at 3:07 pmCoon-ass said:

    @58: Even when it’s a regular commenter?

  64. 18 Sep 2008 at 3:18 pmmc said:

    @63. I think you’re asking about motive, which is hard to deterimine and harder to regulate. If I made my whole identity on the blog to disagree with a commenter (rather like ff did to shenan), then yes, sure, that’d be trolling. We can ignore those people since they don’t add value. The key to not being a troll is to have opinions other than “you suck.”

    HOWEVER, let’s say I regularly disagree with belmont’s sense of humor (which I tots do, he’s an unfunny person everybody!). So whenever he posts links, I say I don’t like them. Am I personally attacking him? I don’t think so, though I am being annoying since if I don’t like them, I should just ignore and not click.

    What if I just don’t agree with anything and am constantly in a state of contrariness? That’s called being Ethan. And he’s welcome, too!

  65. 18 Sep 2008 at 3:33 pmCoon-ass said:

    @64: Smart girl. Also, your a dickhead if you are not calling someone a name or saying You are, You suck, but saying things that make them look bad.

  66. 18 Sep 2008 at 3:40 pmparlie said:

    another example would be that if you develop some kind of an electronic infatuation with somebody, but you’re crazy and you figure out where he or she lives, and then when he or she doesn’t return your e-card, or maybe i make fun of you when your crazy ass says something about wanting to ride unicorns over clouds of strawberries with me and live in eternal bliss under a honey waterfall, and then you set my house on fire and leave roadkill skewered on my front porch, then

    you’re not welcome.

  67. 18 Sep 2008 at 3:41 pmparlie said:

    i’m just kidding. that stuff only happens on tv series which are based on real life internet experiences. which don’t happen.

  68. 18 Sep 2008 at 4:02 pmTinkertoy said:

    “real life internet experiences” They don’t happen? Ya, I’ll give you that.

  69. 18 Sep 2008 at 4:02 pmmc said:

    @66: are you still mad because I said I wanted your leprechaun babies? sorry parlie. that was mean, I know. however, the unicorn told me to burn down your house. so it was totally not my idea.

  70. 18 Sep 2008 at 4:04 pmparlie said:

    leprechauns and unicorns have been at war for thousands of years. it’s not your fault.

    this is totally and completely on topic, btw. suck it, admins.

  71. 18 Sep 2008 at 4:11 pmStanley said:

    Hey guys, I just thought of a joke. Do you wanna hear it? Okay, cool:

    Q: What do you call a diminutive Irishman with a really bad skin condition?

    A: A leperchaun.

    Man, I slay me.

  72. 18 Sep 2008 at 4:24 pmparlie said:

    also: topical!

  73. 18 Sep 2008 at 4:25 pmparlie said:

    LIKE AN OINTMENT, YOU GUYS.

  74. 18 Sep 2008 at 4:29 pmotterdung said:

    one serving time is a lepre-con?

  75. 18 Sep 2008 at 4:29 pmStanley said:

    You know, sometimes the commenters of a blog get into fights. But at the end of the day, we all hit the showers, towel off, pajama up, and then everyone tucks into a single large bed with a glass of cognac and a book of Walt Whitman’s poems. Because, hey guys, we’re a team.

  76. 18 Sep 2008 at 4:33 pmotterdung said:

    I have heard what the talkers were talking, the talk of the
    beginning and the end,
    But I do not talk of the beginning or the end.

  77. 18 Sep 2008 at 4:33 pmparlie said:

    i sleep in a drawer.

  78. 18 Sep 2008 at 4:34 pmotterdung said:

    in the same poem he talks about reach-arounds, sooooooo

  79. 18 Sep 2008 at 4:50 pmTuffy McFucklebee said:

    It’s “As the hugging and loving bedfellow sleeps at my side through the night, and withdraws at the peep of the day with stealthy tread…” Not tugging.

    I am getting in way over my head. I had to have mc explain the intricacies of Make Way for Ducklings to me the other day. I thought it was supposed to be a hentai snuff book. I was waaaaaay off.

  80. 18 Sep 2008 at 4:51 pm26 world said:

    Did someone welcome Coon-ass to the party, or did I miss Her/his earlier debut…

  81. 18 Sep 2008 at 5:56 pmmc said:

    shiiiiiitttt… did we not welcome Coon-ass? WELCOME! grab a grilled cheese sandwich and a warm PBR from the kitchen, but for fuck’s sake don’t touch the “haterade.” we like each other round here, alright!

  82. 18 Sep 2008 at 6:12 pmfirefly said:

    i think it’s time we had another cvillain party…oktoberfest?

    and welcome, coon-ass from a relative newbie.

  83. 18 Sep 2008 at 6:49 pmparlie said:

    “alright, contestant, are you ready? the next word is ‘bedfellow.’ bbbbbbbbbbbbedfellow.”

    “can you use the word in a sentence, please.”

    “not without laughing my fucking ass off.”

  84. 18 Sep 2008 at 6:50 pmTuffy McFucklebee said:

    @81 - Someone very smart should make a really good rice wine and call it “For Fuck’s Sake”.

  85. 18 Sep 2008 at 7:05 pm26 world said:

    @83 Someone somewhere must have used the word in a sentence, because between this thread and the pseudonym thread, I’ve been laughing my fecking ass off…A lot of things have been pretty funny, and one thing has been hysterical.

  86. 18 Sep 2008 at 7:07 pmparlie said:

    @85 oh yeah @83 was @79. i forgot my internet manners.

    flog me, the internet. flog me bloody.

  87. 18 Sep 2008 at 7:13 pmmc said:

    parlie is a pervert. attack attack!

    okay, but seriously, oktoberfest? Is that what you bears are planning? At cVillain’s last ethnic party (St. Patrick’s Day, celebration of the dirty irish catholics) I got 10x drunker than I planned, fell down on a curb and couldn’t get up, pissed off my DD, cried on the drive home and felt sick for 2 days. We should TOTALLY have another party like that. I think it’d go better this time since I’m not German and won’t have the weight of years of discrimination and guilt following me around all night.

  88. 18 Sep 2008 at 7:30 pmfirefly said:

    @87: that wasn’t discrimination and guilt, it was me!

    /german, catholic, irish, dutch AND swedish…and possibly native american, depends on who you believe

  89. 18 Sep 2008 at 7:42 pmStanley said:

    one thing has been hysterical

    Was it something parlie said? You should tell us if so. When that happens we give him an extra little treat during his nightly feeding.

  90. 18 Sep 2008 at 8:25 pmbuster said:

    @ 73 i made that exact same joke earlier. are you me?

  91. 18 Sep 2008 at 9:54 pmTaliesin said:

    There have been 90 posts regarding the most inane self-important self-aggrandizing lets play nice on the playground and don’t throw sand in Charles Atlas’ face topics in the history of the internets. I know because I used the googler to substantiate this. The spicy bear has grown into a Yeti. All fluffy w/ fangs. The bullies have gone home to lick their wounds. No fair you don’t agree with me..I’m going to bat my eyelashes in cyberspace with blue eye shadow and YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITY or I won’t play. Yick. And a little giggle because that has always worked for the inane. Don’t let the invisible door kick you in the ass on the way out. And the frail gig. Ginger had no substance.

    Boring and fake. No thank you.

    But let’s just make this a super duper place where we all just get along in our little commune that has never worked ever ever ever. Let’s hold Obama rallies and make rice together. And quell individual expression forever and ever. Brave New World. Indeed.

  92. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:12 pmmc said:

    91: if you think this post was about how we should’ve been nicer to shenanigans, you’re probably right. But if you think that’s what the 90+ comments are about … well, I can assure you there are many mixed feelings on that particular subject in the crowd and you should read more carefully.

  93. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:14 pmmc said:

    also @88: do we know each other or did you stalk me at a pub crawl back in March? I’m not sure how to take that joke, but it’s interesting.

  94. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:22 pmbrutus said:

    @7: Telling n00bs they can’t dispute regulars sounds elitist to me. I don’t comment very regularly, does that mean I shouldn’t say anything when I disagree? If I want to mix it up, how many fluff posts/comments to I have to make before I’m allowed? Should I run off at the keyboard for a few weeks first, commenting all day when I should be working?

    Only rules you need are don’t be a Troll and don’t be a Dick. If people step over that line, delete their comments. If you think I have, delete this too. It’s your website. But do it because I’m obnoxious, not because I’m new, or not regular enough.

  95. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:26 pmbrutus said:

    @92: What happened with shenanigans? I liked her although her commenting was a bit prolific. Was there some ugliness in a thread I missed?

  96. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:31 pmStanley said:

    Telling n00bs they can’t dispute regulars sounds elitist to me.

    I agree fervently. My only real dust-ups (I think) have been with regulars whom I’ve had drinks with and tried to settle things off-blog with. Lurkers are to be greeted cordially .

    Calling someone a troll should include a full explanation of why that person is being trollish. I suspect that ~80% of trolling behavior is actually someone trying to snark and failing to do so with proper comedic effect, and thus sounding like a troll when they meant to add to the conversation.

  97. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:35 pmfirefly said:

    @93 don’t know you, but did go to the st. paddy’s crawl…was not capable of stalking, dammit. think i was lurching, sorta. just commiserating -

  98. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:40 pmparlie said:

    the same goes for calling somebody a towel.

    however it all begins with the axiom (the generally accepted principle(math!)) that stanley is a towel.

  99. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:41 pmmc said:

    96- as per usual, i agree with stanley. Or maybe I should disagree so we can settle this off blog with drinks?

    95- shenanigans quit last week because she got fed up about meanies and seriousness. Many of us have quit at various times for very similar reasons. We just didn’t leave in as vocal a way.

    97- for reals, that night destroyed me. glad I wasn’t the only one.

  100. 18 Sep 2008 at 10:47 pmStanley said:

    stanley is a towel.

    That’s right. Stanley towels. Buy Stanley towels—the towelfor change.

    /shit, was that advertorial? shit.

  101. 18 Sep 2008 at 11:06 pmduckduckgoose said:

    Only rules you need are don’t be a Troll for and don’t be a Dick.

  102. 18 Sep 2008 at 11:07 pmduckduckgoose said:

    Only rules you need are don’t be a Troll for and don’t be a Dick.

  103. 18 Sep 2008 at 11:07 pmduckduckgoose said:

    that’s better.

  104. 18 Sep 2008 at 11:56 pmThor said:

    @94 - I just mean you are exposing yourself to assault if you come on and start fighting with someone; I didn’t mean it as a rule.

  105. 19 Sep 2008 at 12:25 ambackup planet said:

    ok, i’ve been known to shy away when I thought I’d verbosed too much. After the fact, I was so addicted to this blog that I “lurked” for a while until I couldn’t stand it any more and had to begin commenting again. God help me if I ever find the courage to actually post. But for Shenanigans to “quit”??? I’m betting She’ll be back, just give her time. As for me, I can’t wait for her to come back, just love the biting wit. On another note, in spite of those who do not find B’yo’s wit equally entertaining, too fucking bad. I love you old-timers and count you among the reasons I find this site very personally entertaining and stimulating. (can’t wait for the jokes, there…)

    /yeah, i’m up again…comment on that, i double dare ya

  106. 19 Sep 2008 at 12:27 ambackup planet said:

    I mean, day-amn - whose got the most popular cvillain post???? Look it up, folks - and it’s snot-blowin’ funny!

  107. 19 Sep 2008 at 1:11 ambackup planet said:

    I just love a post where we’re all misbehavin’ and shit. gotta mean someone is pretty successful, no?

  108. 19 Sep 2008 at 11:13 amfebreze said:

    So new commenters can’t dispute long time commenters? That’s convenient. Mas has good service. Oops, did I really just type that?

  109. 19 Sep 2008 at 11:20 amStanley said:

    new commenters can’t dispute long time commenters

    I don’t speak for the blog’s admins or for Spicy Bear, but I have commented here for some time and explicitly rejected this notion @96. mc, another veteran commenter agreed @99. Where are you reading support for that (obviously ridiculous) policy?

  110. 19 Sep 2008 at 11:23 amThor said:

    @myself, 104 - It isn’t supposed to be a rule, just a you expose yourself to oodles of criticism of you are new and come swingin.

  111. 19 Sep 2008 at 11:25 amfebreze said:

    i’m waiting for the criticism, but i’m pretty sure i know where most of it will be coming from.

  112. 19 Sep 2008 at 11:26 ammc said:

    110: I say you expose yourself to criticism if you come out swinging no matter how long you’ve been here.

  113. 19 Sep 2008 at 11:27 amStanley said:

    @112: That’s fucking rank bullshit, mc.

    /i keed, i keed

  114. 19 Sep 2008 at 11:30 ammc said:

    ef that noise, sit down and shut up, you!

  115. 19 Sep 2008 at 11:32 amStanley said:

    Kidding aside, I’m genuinely curious what #108 and #111 are on about. febreze? Care to elaborate?

  116. 19 Sep 2008 at 11:36 amLys said:

    Again, really? I am so sick of this conversation.

    And yet, I engage. Let’s try a new approach - instead of telling the would be offenders and bullies how to behave and being so shocked they aren’t following the rules, let’s come up with a way for everyone else to deal with these situations when they arise. Like animal training, instead of responding negatively when they do something bad, don’t respond at all. Negative attention is still attention (and more so on the internet). Therefore, if someone is being an asshole, just don’t fucking respond or engage, oldie or newbie. They’ll get bored, or leave, or maybe word their comment in a way worthy of a reponse in the future. They are just cyber daggers so we don’t need to defend ourselves or eachother against anything.

    And none of this holier than thou shit, I’ve said some stupid and mean stuff here that I regret, too. But it’s no longer just a tiny clique where we can kick people out of our lunch table. Now it’s a cocktail party of a co-worker and it’s better to go get another drink than try to explain to the drunk accountant why you don’t feel like it’s appropriate to talk about religion at work.

    Be honest, there’s nothing more defeating than having no one respond to a comment than having everyone wanting to kill you afterwords (prompting you to defend or explain and keeping the conversation alive).

  117. 19 Sep 2008 at 11:41 am434, baby! said:

    @116 cyber daggers! loves it

  118. 19 Sep 2008 at 11:44 amDead Horse said:

    *Sigh*. Not again. Ow.

    When someone’s tried numerous times to explain/defend what they said, can we just let it go? Thor’s already clarified in @7 and @104. He clearly says at the top, “some basic thoughts” not “Rules”

    Anyone remember that Purdue commercial where the old guy kept going into the fridge to pick at a roasted chicken carcass and there was a song in the background going, “Pick pickpickpick…pick pickpickpick…”

  119. 19 Sep 2008 at 1:49 pmt(h)om said:

    @118 is it possible that some people comment without reading all 100 other comments? they still have a right to make their opinion or feeling known about what Thor wrote in the actual post, don’t they?

  120. 19 Sep 2008 at 1:58 pmDead Horse said:

    They sure do! Still hurts though. Ow!

  121. 19 Sep 2008 at 2:53 pmindie dork said:

    10 of these bad cop speeches and no “comment rating system” for registered users. Am I the only one that thinks this is at least worth a 1-month trial?

  122. 19 Sep 2008 at 3:09 pmCortez said:

    @121 Your comment is interesting… I give it and 8.5 out of 178 1/3*(Pi).

    That’s 2 and a half parlies people

  123. 19 Sep 2008 at 3:14 pmCoon-ass said:

    121- What’s a bad cop speech? We didn’t say nuthin bad about no cops!

  124. 19 Sep 2008 at 3:16 pmt(h)om said:

    @121 a comment rating system would require development which would cost money that spicy bear might not want to spend.

  125. 19 Sep 2008 at 3:21 pmTinkertoy said:

    Isn’t what people do already a verbal comment rating system?

  126. 19 Sep 2008 at 3:21 pmTinkertoy said:

    Also known as conversing.

  127. 19 Sep 2008 at 3:33 pmStormy said:

    Meh on the rating system, yes on the preview feature!

  128. 19 Sep 2008 at 4:27 pmlurker said:

    I lurk this site from time to time and I usually enjoy the posts. I don’t usually post though because this site is extremely cliquey and it really discourages me from offering input. Just because I can’t quote every thread that has ever been on this site doesn’t mean that my input isn’t valid or valued…I guess what I am trying to say is that this site seems very inaccessible to a newbie/lurker because a good part of the threads are in reference to or include things from past threads/real life acquaintance/etc. These “basic thoughts” or guidelines or whatever they are basically reaffirm my original thought that I am better off keeping my opinions to myself….

    /except this one..hmmm

  129. 19 Sep 2008 at 4:55 pmCoon-ass said:

    128–: I think we new kids gotta make up our own references and stuff. If you want, you and me can yell,
    “Do the math!” at everyone randomly.

  130. 19 Sep 2008 at 5:01 pmlurker said:

    1 lurker + 1 coon-ass= 2 newbies

    DO THE MATH

  131. 19 Sep 2008 at 5:04 pmStanley said:

    Regulars? Where are you? The hoi polloi—they’re at the gates. And they brought pitchforks.

  132. 19 Sep 2008 at 5:06 pmCoon-ass said:

    I heard a lot of these kid on here met through the site too so the real life aquaintances is due to the site. If you lurk and feel left out you should go to the parties or show up at the wine-tastings and stuff they mention. South street on Tuesday is good for villain-meeting I think. And you don’t have to say who you are or nothin.

  133. 19 Sep 2008 at 5:08 pmlurker said:

    Good idea…pretty soon I will have to change my name to ‘regular’

  134. 19 Sep 2008 at 5:12 pmmc said:

    132 speaks the total absolute truth. And also, I’ve been here for ages and still don’t know of the “regulars” in real life. doesn’t matter either way.

    hey, you lurkers with pitchforks… wanna help me aerate my compost pile? I could use a hand.

  135. 19 Sep 2008 at 5:12 pmEthan said:

    Anyone want to join my clique? I’m the only one in it as far as I know.

  136. 19 Sep 2008 at 5:14 pmStanley said:

    wanna help me aerate my compost pile?

    So that’s what you hip youngsters are calling it nowadays….

  137. 19 Sep 2008 at 5:15 pmmc said:

    oh 134 : still don’t know {all} of the regulars…

    I’ll join your clique Ethan. GRRRRR, I’m a libertarian!

  138. 19 Sep 2008 at 5:23 pmTinkertoy said:

    Oh phew. For a second there I thought you wrote ‘librarian’. I’m relieved

    /shudder

  139. 19 Sep 2008 at 5:48 pmfirefly said:

    can’t decide if i should force my way into ethan & mc’s clique or the newbie/lurker one…NOT a librarian, but i like to hush people -

    /shhhhh!

  140. 19 Sep 2008 at 5:50 pmparlie said:

    i once had a girl who would come over and do the math for me. more recently, i often do the math by myself. i usually get it done faster and the answer is always the same, but it’s not quite as much fun.

    do the math.

  141. 19 Sep 2008 at 5:51 pmFloozy said:

    135… I wonder why?

  142. 19 Sep 2008 at 6:13 pmmc said:

    I’d rather be a librarian than a libertarian. sorry Ethan. can I still be in your clique of dissent?

  143. 19 Sep 2008 at 6:21 pmFloozy said:

    mc…. noooooooooooooooooooooooooo…. please don’t go over to the dark side. It’s no fun. They flail you with spiky thorny holly type stuff if you smile and make you drink hydrofluoric acid if you laugh. Honest.

  144. 19 Sep 2008 at 6:32 pmmc said:

    oh, I was just offering in the spirit of commenter solidarity. However, that sounds like socialism (hell yeah!) so Ethan might not be interested.

    that’s right, I’m talking about politics, but obliquely and without malice. KICK ME OUT, I DARE YOU!

  145. 19 Sep 2008 at 10:00 pmbackup planet said:

    @138. etc… ask sarah “barracuda” palin what she thinks of librarians, eh?

  146. 19 Sep 2008 at 10:01 pmbackup planet said:

    oops, I FAIL, did the politics thingy…

  147. 19 Sep 2008 at 10:55 pmduckduckgoose said:

    trouble with the comment rating system is that I’d start doing it in the meat world.

    “So that’s when I decided I’d become a librarian.”

    “Ugh. Two.”

    “What?”

    “TWO. I rated you, so go fall to the bottom of the thread.”

  148. 20 Sep 2008 at 12:11 amcaroline said:

    where’s silmo?

  149. 20 Sep 2008 at 1:21 amTaliesin said:

    Ill be the boy in the corduroy pants
    You be the girl at the high school dance
    Run with me wherever I go
    And just play dumb, whatever you know

    Oh, yeah, you wreck me, baby
    You break me in two
    But you move me, honey
    Yes you do

  150. 22 Sep 2008 at 10:16 amZed said:

    This is probably all old news to the regulars, but I haven’t been on here for a while so it’s new to me and maybe a few other lurkers who only pop in now and then.

    And maybe, sometimes, change is a good thing. Cvillain has, to me, seemed very much like a private party. No problem with that. You walk in, get to know people, and slowly start making friends, just like in RL. Some people you like, some you don’t, so you just hang out with the ones you like. NP.

    But what’s kept me from ever joining this one was one person’s *seeming* need to constantly be the center of attention and turn every post into their personal agenda. Kind of impossible to avoid someone you don’t care for when they’re all over the party 24/7.

    It’s going to be interesting to see how many lurkers and/or n00bies begin posting now as the news of their departure spreads. Will they, like me, wait to see if this person has just mcquit, or returns under another name? If they really have quit, what will Cvillain look like a month from now? Two months from now?

  151. 22 Sep 2008 at 10:53 amOh the irony said:

    Marsha Marsha Marsha!

  152. 22 Sep 2008 at 11:01 amMagic 8-Ball® said:

    @150: REPLY HAZY, TRY AGAIN

  153. 22 Sep 2008 at 11:02 amotterdung said:

    @150
    dominant personalities tend to dominate where the prime-driver of conversation is personality and overall fizz?

    there’s great value in someone who keeps threads returning-to-the-windmill of chat/gossip/antics, to
    prevent the hyper-seriousness that probably belongs on Drudge Report or CvilleNews.spit or Huffington?

    i love this site, but it has tamed-down a lot suddenly. MC is carrying the show, now, and never a sign of Floozie, who used to play so amusingly and well off S’s comments.

    parlie, stanley, the eponymous backup planet are taking up a lot of slack, too. and are uniformly hilarious.

  154. 22 Sep 2008 at 11:23 ammc said:

    shit, I’m carrying the show and Floozy has disappeared?!? I mcdisagree. Stanley is king and it’s parlie who’s let us all down. screw you parlie.

  155. 22 Sep 2008 at 11:40 amparlie said:

    parlie was killed this weekend when he was bundled into a package of subprime mortgages and sold into the blender of the derivatives market.

    he will be missed, but not badly or for very long.

  156. 22 Sep 2008 at 11:43 amStanley said:

    @155: Sounds like parlie liked Lehman Brothers even more than Avett Brothers.

  157. 22 Sep 2008 at 11:56 amotterdung said:

    i think parlie was/is the genius of one-line All-Time-Greatest-Comments.

    I was shocked to see him come out with 100-words or more on Avett Bros, from whom he no doubt gets substantial cash-kickbacks or hair-extensions-at-discount.

  158. 22 Sep 2008 at 12:13 pmStanley said:

    @157: parlie’s dead now, otter. And we’ve got to move on, or we’ll never get off of this island alive.

    /sets down conch

  159. 22 Sep 2008 at 12:39 pmdoofus said:

    New commenters: Don’t come in disputing a long time commenter. Join the conversation with something supportive. You can be critical, but be positive.<<<<<<

    I would like to comment but don`t wish to violate any rule of censorship - the penalty, I presume, is a gag order of some kind. Long time commenters rule and as “long time” is not defined I`m “dead in the water”. Woe.

  160. 22 Sep 2008 at 1:12 pmotterdung said:

    anyone like you who landed at Normandie,
    walked out of Choisin,
    and stood with his back-to-the-wall at Tet,
    can probably say whatever the hell he wants,
    doofus.

  161. 22 Sep 2008 at 1:28 pmduckduckgoose said:

    sometimes one person carries the thread, sometimes they override it. it’s the same as a boisterous person at any party. sometimes they are the entertainment, and sometimes they talk over you. you love them, you hate them, you chirp about them endlessly then they’re gone. ahem.

    if they come back, if they don’t… either way, can we move on? with or without any single commenter, we’re all cvillians. and this is our town, and our site, and our gossip. no single one of us is a leader, but we’re all weaker when we think that way. ALL of us are driving this ship with our opinions and ideas and comments.

  162. 22 Sep 2008 at 2:18 pmCoon-ass said:

    Is this where the people with animal names hang out? Heyah.

  163. 22 Sep 2008 at 2:35 pmotterdung said:

    and a right-merry zoo we are.

  164. 22 Sep 2008 at 2:46 pmmc said:

    OMG, people, I don’t care if you’re new or old or a regular or a lurker, just be kind, be interesting and be occasionally funny.

    dead horse, this animal thread is for you.

  165. 22 Sep 2008 at 2:48 pmDead Horse said:

    I’ve taken out a restraining order.

  166. 22 Sep 2008 at 5:59 pmfirefly said:

    wow, i love your outfit, cvillain!

    /trying to be “kind”

  167. 22 Sep 2008 at 6:58 pmmc said:

    “good” work firefly.

    ps. you’re my favorite bug. even more than rollypollies or ladybugs.

  168. 22 Sep 2008 at 7:07 pmparlie said:

    @162,3,4… did you guys know that a parlie is an animal? the equatorial singing riverparlie, is a species of hippopotamus that sings a beautiful sound like a trombone, except it’s with a hippopotamus mouth instead of a brass tube.

    no, that’s not true.

  169. 22 Sep 2008 at 7:20 pmFloozy said:

    My favorite bug is a rollyparlie.
    /firefly lies in 166…. we were all naked today.

  170. 22 Sep 2008 at 7:52 pmfirefly said:

    @167: that was very kind of you, mc. ladybugs are cool - my house was infested w/them last year…it was bizarre and crunchy. rollypolies, tho! they’re prehistoric! they’re armadillos! when i find them, i feed them to my carnivorous plants (really!). they’ll outlive us all.

    but none have a light-up butt!

    /starts a wave

  171. 22 Sep 2008 at 7:53 pmfirefly said:

    /naked is a “nice outfit” :)

  172. 22 Sep 2008 at 8:01 pmStanley said:

    but none have a light-up butt!

    They do if you feed ‘em some sriracha sauce. That stuff will light up anyone’s ass.

  173. 22 Sep 2008 at 8:55 pmTwoOFour said:

    imagines Stanley’s iridescent ass

  174. 22 Sep 2008 at 8:56 pmTwoOFour said:

    Surely thou speak from experience, no?

  175. 22 Sep 2008 at 8:57 pmStanley said:

    I have all sorts of experiences.

    /and stop calling me “Shirley”

  176. 22 Sep 2008 at 11:58 pmbackup planet said:

    ooh, my favorite phrase from late-night bar service, stan

    /”thanks for the memories…” - I love you, Frank!

  177. 22 Sep 2008 at 11:58 pmbackup planet said:

    That, and “you don’t have to go home, but you can’t stay here”

  178. 23 Sep 2008 at 1:26 amscoriole said:

    @166: firefly- did you know there is an iced-tea (sweet iced-tea) vodka infusion that is a special at maya? simple drinking combo of said sweet tea infused vodka + equal part water, squeeze of lemon. called firefly.

    come drink it for brunch next sunday.

    /yours truly will be bartending and wants a full seating of funny punny amuzing folks to entertain me while i make your drinks. tv- will be on football. go bills!!!!

  179. 23 Sep 2008 at 9:32 amTwoOFour said:

    @Shirley, please elaborate on the experience…

  180. 23 Sep 2008 at 11:46 amStanley said:

    @179: This one time I had a pet roly poly who got into my hot sauce collection, and then he assploded. Sad story, really.

    /his name was dave

  181. 23 Sep 2008 at 1:46 pmotterdung said:

    and then there’s this:

    http://dukeofstraw.com/fall/05.mp3

  182. 23 Sep 2008 at 7:22 pmTwoOFour said:

    @180 it is with great disappointment I read this, I was absolutely in knots waiting for what I thought constituted you own personal story about your gluteus maximus and its surprising capability of absorbing and re-emitting light.

    /disillusioned, again.

  183. 23 Sep 2008 at 8:28 pmfirefly said:

    @178 WHAT!? i am so there! i’ll be driving back 4.5 hours from elsewhere and will be so @#(* ready by brunch time. the thought of sweet tea and vodka makes me feel a little queasy…but then, so does the thought of eating oysters and that’s always worked out okay (this is the beginning of me talking myself into it).

    /go panthers!

  184. 23 Sep 2008 at 10:42 pmorchid said:

    @178 some day i will come. (not this weekend–saving drinking for foxfield.) but sweet tea & vodka sounds absolutely disgusting! i like my alcohol to taste like AHOCOLDLHO, gosh darn it.

    /had some tiongiht.

  185. 23 Sep 2008 at 11:01 pmduckduckgoose said:

    actually, the mix of sweet tea and vodka is effing amazing. I’ve been drinking like ten different versions of it all summer, including that arnold-palmery one they make at zinc. but I’ve never had the pre-fab vodka flavored with tea… sounds… sketchy.

  186. 23 Sep 2008 at 11:05 pmorchid said:

    i don’t like tea.

    i heard (from a fake-tanned undergrad going into the AFC who was telling her father about it) that the abc store has a pre-fab version. she was super-excited.

    /vodka should taste like vodka. or olives.
    //although olives are gross.

  187. 23 Sep 2008 at 11:15 pmduckduckgoose said:

    hey, that was me! you shoulda said hi.

    and the whole not liking tea thing might interfere with liking tea mixed with stuff.

  188. 24 Sep 2008 at 12:31 ambackup planet said:

    @186 - bp loves olives and cocktail onions

    /vodka should taste like nothing except what it’s mixed with, unless it’s not, of course. Then it should taste like fermented potatoes, only with a serious kick

  189. 24 Sep 2008 at 1:12 ambackup planet said:

    back on topic - and I am so respecting, ya’ll

  190. 24 Sep 2008 at 9:47 amGet Back on Topic said:

    I LEAVE FOR 10 MINUTES AND IT ALL GOES TO SHIT.

  191. 24 Sep 2008 at 9:51 amStanley said:

    190: It’s off-topically disrespectful to use all caps in an internetical forum. I call for your resignation.

  192. 24 Sep 2008 at 10:01 amOh the irony said:

    My name is Stanley and I make the rules!

  193. 24 Sep 2008 at 10:13 amotterdung said:

    i thought we decided by popular acclaim that we all rather liked Get Back oN Topic using all-caps as being a meta-chat enhancement, provided it was done sparingly and the all-caps used for internetz-good not internetz-eeeeeevil…

  194. 24 Sep 2008 at 10:16 amOh the irony said:

    Stanley doesn’t like it if you post too often or type in caps or misspell their. Better watch out, otterdung, he’s made remarks about you before. You may be his next victim.

  195. 24 Sep 2008 at 10:19 amStanley said:

    @194: Oh, give it a rest, shen. For fuck’s sake.

  196. 24 Sep 2008 at 10:31 amGet Back on Topic said:

    HOW DARE YOU. I HAVE A VOICE-RELATED MEDICAL CONDITION.

  197. 24 Sep 2008 at 10:38 amOh the irony said:

    Oh, I forgot again to not start anything with a regular. Whoopsie! But it was fun because you resorted to profanity and accusation. I’ll go back to lurking now with a smile on my face.

  198. 24 Sep 2008 at 10:53 amotterdung said:

    @194
    I’ve come to rather like Stanley; fear him not.
    i enjoyed especially playing straight-man to him in the politics thread.

    @196
    we learned in the talk-like-a-pirate-thread to be more sympathetic to speak-impediments—how soon we forget. John Casey, for example, Genius Grant and National Book Award winner, poor guy, has a chronic stutter. But sings Cole Porter like a canary (not that canaries sing Cole Porter). I imagine his typography on the site would be as exotic as your own, Get Back On Topic.

  199. 24 Sep 2008 at 12:51 pmotterdung said:

    @post

    does anyone respect anyone in the morning?
    why?

Leave a Reply