Charlottesville City Council is convening for it’s first meeting of 2010 tonight (01/04), and the hot topic will be a petition from some Belmont homeowners to enact a new noise ordinance. This topic was visited by downtown mall dwellers in March of 2008, when the city set the limit of 75db for round the clock operation of bars & restaurants.
While few, if any, citations have been issued in relation to the March ordinance, Belmont denizens apparently believe it is still ‘too darn loud’, and are requesting a limit of 55db after the 11PM hour. BNAP, (Belmont Neighborhood Association President) Jesse Fiske, cited late nigh bands as a reason locals are unable to sleep or enjoy their premises. Fiske is hoping the new law will provide a ‘tool’ for folks to utilize when combating this continuing problem.
To provide a clear(er) definition of the volume levels being discussed here, 75db equates to normal conversation heard from 3-5′ away, a dial tone provides 80db (@ speaker output), and a neighbors AC unit from 25′ away averages 57db. Additionally, all volume levels are to be taken at the establishments door. [Photo Credits]
Related posts:
- Charlottesville Noise Ordinance Round… 5..? Etc.
- Belmont Wins ‘Outstanding Neighborhood Effort’ Award
- Belmont New Orleans Style Restaurant Still Viable
Its the airport rule…if you lived there before it got noisy you can complain. If you moved their for the new stuff, you have little room to piss and moan.
From those I have spoken too it is not the restaurants and bands that are the main problem, its the drunken louts who come out yelling and laughing.
it’s called coming to the nuisance. but as b’yo said, how many people have moved in to bel rio’s vicinity in the last year? ok, all 5 of them can stfu. but that little old lady probably isn’t one of them.
Jesse Fisk is a musician and plays in the Hackensaw Boys and other local bands as well and even he agrees that late night bands are the problem.
Thanks Bel Rio for screwing it up for the rest of us.
Here’s a tip – be a restaurant that does some live music here and there and stop pretending to be an actual music venue.
Snazzy curtain though.
Half million dollar homes? Really? Awesome. Hellloo “Rancho Maybealittle Grande” perhaps. But seriously.
Be careful what you wish for, because whatever they implement in Belmontonia stands a very good chance of being implemented city wide – at least thats what the strange looking fellow on the tv machine told me. Do you really want to hear your favorite fixed gear screamo gaze tight jean ironic studded belt no bass player western shirt with pearl button sideburn neck beard neon shoelace ensemble (shout out Nate! holla!) played at the level of “a neighbor’s air conditioner from 25 feet”? I thought not.
And speaking as one who had a weekly run in with, nay, a personal noise meter cop assigned to him for over a year (at 75 db, downtown). – they are VERY arbitrary when they run around with those gadgets, and get this – only state certified ones count, and club owners aren’t allowed to own those. So if you get a different reading, tough nuts, you lose. Dont even get me started on the arguments about how far 75 feet is. Over and over and over….
Sounds to me like its a very convenient way to shut down anyone they like at any time. How many people live within earshot of a venue in belmont? Like 40? The whole thing is ridiculous.
/the parking / drunk people thing, though… I can see that. But they shoulda thought of that before they jumped into the rezoning orgy…
who exactly is “the rest of us”?
Sorry Loki, but if the “little Old lady” was there before you then your just the pissy kid late to the show.
Yeah sure Yo, a whole neighborhood, most who lived there long before the clubs should pay the price for people coming in from other places (quiet I would imagine) that number a fraction of those they keep awake at night with loud talk and late night drunk laughter…
You like it so much, put them in your living room EVERY NIGHT OF THE YEAR.
Tell you what. Put your money where your mouth is and kick me your phone number. I will call you every morning on my way to work. You answer the call 2-3 times every morning, when you might prefer to be sleeping, with the same smug smile you posted above..or STFU.
And please, if you just post a smarmy reply without a phone number, then your set is well, not so impressive. Your talk is cheap.
Surely you do not mind be bothered when your sleeping or resting. So if your going to be whining like a 15 year old girl about noise meters you can stand a phone call in the morning?
Oh…and no phone posted, then your a little b-t-h that talks more than she walks.
ta.
Damn. Someone needs a nap. Joking, joking…
Post my number on the internet so a very gentle and obviously emotionally balanced citizen like yourself can call me 3 times every morning – or my opinion on the internets means nothing? Where do I sign up? Seriously, there’s no need to go to the trouble, I know my opinion mean very little. Nobody’s does.
If you take the time to actually read what I wrote, I said that I could see that the drunk wanderers would be annoying – and that there is also the looming problem of parking, which I see as a larger problem, but hey, tilt at any old windmill you want. I think all the restaurants there should try to be good neighbors and work something out and Im sure they will – why would they want to alienate their neighbors/customers/OG Belmontonians? I just dont think its a good idea to legislate something, city wide, that I have personally seen misused. Thats all. No more. Just a simple stupid opinion. Un-bunch. Breath.
Lastly, I live very near the area in question and have watched it change over just the last decade. My neighbor, while not “lady”, is a very sweet old man who has lived in the same house for 72 years. I “walk the walk” by shoveling snow off his sidewalk and doing the odd thing for him. We get on great, and enjoy many a lemonade on his porch while he tells me the whole history of the area, and what I’ve learned is: change happens and no one can stop it. Its been happening since Belmont was first gridded in the 1870’s. You *can* manage, though, to try to be cool, and work it out and find some sort of compromise – you know, one where everyone feels their opinion at least matters – without getting city hall and the boys in blue involved. They’re busy guys, you know. Thats what happened in my situation – mutual compromise – and there hasn’t been a problem in years.
I know I will regret responding. Perhaps I felt I wasn’t clear, as I have clearly upset you. Perhaps I was just blinded by the bits of foamy spittle and ad hominem attacks coming through the monitor, who knows? Either way, if you’ll excuse me, I have Hanna Montana lyrics to memorize. Don’t worry, I’ll keep it at a reasonable volume.
/internet. serious business.
Actually, Wahoowa/Danpri,
being too pussy to post the word bitch on the internets, makes you “a little b-t-h that talks more than she walks”.
Loki, the fact that you don’t know that most of he residents of Belmont were there long before any clubs opened there tells me that you haven’t been around Charlottesville very long.
The problem is in the zoning. Neighborhood Commercial was never intended to create a late-night entertainment district for all of Charlottesville. The intent was to allow small neighborhood-centered businesses like bodegas and cafes that people in the area could walk to easily. Local business owners like Tomas Rahal have done the right thing in integrating their businesses into the neighborhood, and continually touching base with longterm residents to make sure they’re all on the same page. You can run a really successful business in a primarily residential neighborhood and still be a good neighbor. It hasn’t all been smooth sailing, but Rahal set the bar high, and does his best to be approachable and responsive. For that, the residents respect and support him. Bel Rio’s attitude has largely been to tell the neighborhood to fuck off and deal.
One of the reasons that so many people got worked up about Andrew and Hannah’s Southern Crescent project is that there was legitimate fear that it would be more of the same based on neighbors’ many negative interactions with them. What Council did with the Hinton rezoning was grossly insensitive to the repeated requests of the residents, many of whom need to sleep at night so they can get up early and head to work. Hipster assholes are now co-opting Belmont as their own playground. Their behavior is similar to that of frat douches, and runs the gamut from drunken late-night arguments outside bedroom windows, and blocking people’s driveways, to throwing trash in resident’s yards.
Music is great, loud music is even greater. But loud music venues aren’t appropriate in established residential neighborhoods. What’s so hard to understand about that?
Loki – does Aqui Es Mexico, Belmont BBQ, or La Taza have bands play into the later hours of the evening/night?
@6 the rest of us = music fans, musicians, other venues – anyone and everyone that wants music to thrive in this town without the city being forced to get involved and do things like implement a noise ordinance with a ridiculously low limit of 55db.
Natty Bumppo pretty much nailed it.
I saw Van Halen at Belmont BBQ.
Unfortunately, they had to play so quiet, I could barely hear them.
I’m glad to see the internets haven’t changed. b’yo posts a reasonable/logical comment and someone jumps down his throat for no apparent reason.
Its like the good old days… I need the flames, its fucking cold outside.
Just take what everyone says with a
grain of saltshot of Patron. You don’t need training wheels.I want to eat my cake and have it too!
The problem, as stated previously by both yo and Natty, stems directly from Council’s zoning decisions, i.e., unintended consequences of mixing restaurants in neighborhoods. So, how to get the toothpaste back in the tube? I think changing the sound ordinance is a bad idea . . . more unintended consequences. Not to get all Rodney King, but yo has a good point: figure out a fucking compromise.
What was the Council’s decision on this?
They went ahead with the rezoning approval, and I’ve been waiting on callback from the owners to provide some coverage. It also appears that City Council is requesting a secondary meeting regarding the new noise ordinance. Prepare for round 5.
Rules is rules. If local businesses are breaking sound ordinance, I don’t see why they shouldn’t be held liable. Let’s not make it any more cmoplicated than it needs to be
With all do respect, I think it is more complicated. The rules for noise violations, as they currently exist, are not the issue. The issue is that some Belmont residents want to change the rules (in the middle of the game, so to speak) to reduce the threshold for noise violations, thereby reducing noise in the neighborhood, but making it more burdensome on the restaurants in the neighborhood that have late night crowds and attendant noise that accompanies it.
Make that “With all DUE respect,”
/idiot
No, I really don’t think it’s more complicated. People tend to overcomplicated simple issues, for whatever reason. If re-zoning caused the issue, then take it up with the people who approved the re-zoning.
Perhaps the Belmont residents feel like the rules have been changed on them with the re-zoning laws changing while they were living there. That isn’t what they signed up for.
If an ordinance passed last year in this area, and businesses are breaking that ordinance, FINE them. Don’t bitch at the law, bitch at the people who created it, or lead to it.
Um, I’m not sure I follow. Rezoning is somewhat responsible for the problem, as it allowed restaurants to be established in a residential neighborhood. And, in fact, the residents are taking it up with the people who approved the rezoning, i.e., city council. The residents are requesting that the threshold for noise violations be reduced to hopefully reduce noise in the neighborhood.
No ordinance was passed last year regarding noise violations, and no one is breaking the current noise ordinance.
The question is: Should city council lower the threshold for noise violations in the Belmont neighborhood?
If so, to what level?
Should the ordinance extend city wide? If not, why not?
If a new noise threshold is established by city council, then a new and more burdensome barrier to business will be placed on the restaurants in the neighborhood. Is that fair?
If the noise problem continues, is that fair to the residents in the neighborhood?
In a perfect world, we wouldn’t need to create ordinances after the fact to deal with problems. In a perfect world, the owners of Bel Rio would have said to themselves “If a restaurant opened near my house, would I appreciate it if the restaurant decided to start up a late-night music scene– with all the good and bad that goes along with it?” They would have then spoken with the adjacent neighbors to get input as to how they should proceed.
The existing zoning regulations can’t cover every single eventuality. So as problem arise, and aren’t dealt with voluntarily, the laws have to be changed.
I like loud music, but I also live in a community– I have neighbors. Until/unless I move way out to the boonies, then I have to keep it down to a reasonable level. My neighbors shouldn’t have to be put in the position of having to constantly call the cops or zoning inspector on me. If I continue to be an inconsiderate asshole, then fortunately there are laws to deal with that. So yep, I’m pissed that Bel Rio and its apologists are making the neighbors out to be whiners. This has been going on a long time, they’re fed up, and they’re not going to sell their houses and move so a few people can have a swell place to play.
Natty – the owners didn’t just start a restaurant and then decide to start up a late-night music scene. They planned to be a music venue from the beginning. They specifically spent money on special windows and acoustical treatments in attempt to sound proof the place. They not only kept the stage and the PA system, but they added a big “showbiz” curtain.
Smiley – what if you substitute the word “restaurant” for the word music venue in each of your posts?
Thanks Bel Rio–Do you mean substitute the term “music venue” for the word “restaurant?” If so, I don’t know. Enlighten me, please.
/slow on the uptake
Smiley – Whoops, yes, meant the other way – substitute “restaurant” for “music venue.”
Also point out that none of the other restaurants in Belmont are music venues.
“The problem, as stated previously by both yo and Natty, stems directly from Council’s zoning decisions, i.e., unintended consequences of mixing music venues in neighborhoods.”
“The issue is that some Belmont residents want to change the rules (in the middle of the game, so to speak) to reduce the threshold for noise violations, thereby reducing noise in the neighborhood, but making it more burdensome on the music venues in the neighborhood that have late night crowds and attendant noise that accompanies it.”
“Um, I’m not sure I follow. Rezoning is somewhat responsible for the problem, as it allowed music venues to be established in a residential neighborhood.”
I thought the Local had live music. No?
Are the Belmont residents only upset about the live music at Bel Rio? Or does the problem include noise from other restaurants with late night crowds and outdoor dining?
I mean, it doesn’t really ‘end up on cVillain’ unless people bring it here. Right? And I’m only guessing here, but I don’t think the comment was related to this thread…
i don’t expect anyone writing in to understand the pathology of these complaints, their origins and outcomes. you got no cards on the table, no money in the game. But you haven’t been awakened at night by rambunctious barflies skiffling and scuffling outside BelRio. Have you heard the bands loading and unloading their gear at god knows what hour? or how about when some enebriated “customer” rams your house with their car knocking down a knee-wall and damaging your property?or just plain old pissing on the lawn and tossing your empties forthwith? is that just part of the cost of living in the city? So show some respect and don’t pick on neighbors! do you have any idea how much shit that particular neighbor has been through during all this and how much goes unreported? remember the ill-fated SAXX before? then there were shootings right outside her home where she has lived her entire life, a stabbing or two, and then her husbands tragic death, all the while everyone thinks she’s just being a pain in the ass. well i challenge all of you, and B-mont Yo knows this too well, to keep people’s behaviours tamped down during a party, you can’t do it nor do you want to. it has to start from the git-go by not allowing the wackness from starting. this noise ordinance has been around for a long time on the mall and because of lax enforcement, Baldi et al think they can ram it down everyone’s throat telling long-term homeowners to “get over it if they want to live in the city.” that space and lease were not designed for a music hall, dance hall, but for a restaurant, one we were told would not be a humungous pain in the ass with noise, trash, vandalism and all the other great things that come with obnoxious behavior, slack and weasley management. Nobody has the right to disenfranchise these homeowners from their right to the pursuit of happiness in their homes.
That’s not how it works, we all have to comply or risk losing our licenses from ABC and the City. we’ve always had a no music or amplification outside rule from day one. we’ve been asked to turn it down before so we turn down the music, we are after all, a restaurant. I know Keaveny feels that way @ Tavola, and i’m assuming Adam @ The Local and Melissa Easter @ La Taza feel that way too. it is not an inconvenience or hardship to get a business to abide without harming everyone around them. just abide dudes! respect your elders, quit framing this as a struggle between an entrepreneur and cranky mccrankerson. turn down the music, amps, strippers, and get your people back on the leash before they get tasered or something.
It is what it is:
There shouldn’t be a music venue within a neighborhood.
http://www.mensjournal.com/best-nabes-southeast
I own a home about a block away from these restaurants, on Hinton. I’m one of those who “paid close to a half a million” to live where I can walk to fine dining, my son’s school, and downtown. To live in a place that has a strong sense of community. I think these restaurants with outside dining and live music add charm and value to our neighborhood. I can’t believe that we can’t come up with a solution short of getting City Council and the police involved. I have NO issue with the noise stemming from outside dining or music. In fact, the church with its bells at my bedroom window and congregation who don’t mind blocking me in when they park all up and down my street are bigger problems to me (bells ring EVERYDAY from 9am- 9pm and I get a song at noon and 6). I’m not complaining though and never have. It’s city living. I’m sure patrons load talking and laughter as they come and go, at these restaurants, can be an issue. Maybe added security, paid for by the establishments, would be a solution…and I have witnessed loud patrons at almost every restaurant in Belmont (before you start pointing fingers at Bel Rio).
@Smiley – Bel Rio has full bands with drums, bass, electric guitars, and lots of volume. They have speakers hanging from their ceiling and a soundboard. They charge money to see the band – it is not background entertainment for a dinner crowd. They advertise a music calendar independently of the restaurant.
Does the local do any of that?
@37–I’m not here to defend Bel Rio, although I do dine there on occasion. Also dine at The Local.
I’m trying to better understand the problem and, maybe, come up with a solution. I certainly understand both sides of the argument and I don’t think the answer is to ignore the folks who live in the area affected by the noise.
On the other hand, @36 (Kim and Stu) make my point more cogently than I could, since I don’t live in the area but I do have a sense that Bel Rio is not the only offender.
Your thoughts for a solution?
One of my fondest memories of Belmont happened at Bed Rio. My son (9 yrs old) and I went to dinner while some really fantastic jazz was playing. We enjoyed a wonderful meal and he had an ice cream sundae in an old fashioned glass. We danced after dinner and had the grandest time. I would love for more children to have that sort of experience. I’ve recently spoke to the owner about doing some community outreach and he is excited to do it. I’m sure the Charlottesville Jazz Society would be glad to help as well. I hope we can all find ways to work together. Living near a corner market, I endure a lot of noise and some pretty “interesting” patrons, but those corner markets have long been a part of Belmont. I hope we can one day say that of the wonderful dining and music as well.
That is my Bel Rio experience. I am fortunate enough to be able to tell of great experiences at all the restaurants. I don’t want this issue to divide our community. I went to a traffic calming meeting and the residence came together and asked intelligent questions and offered thoughtful solutions. I’m sure we can lick this issue.
@Smiley – what’s there to understand? A music venue does not belong in the heart of Belmont. End of story.
Okay, I get it now. Forget I tried to engage in a reasonable debate.
Hey . . . Kim and Stu! Shut down Bel Rio!
Nope. On second thought, I’ll tell Jim to crank it up. I’ll also be sure to raise hell when I’m in the neighborhood.
/some people ya just can’t please
Interestingly enough, loud music leads to higher alcohol consumption, or so this study finds.
or, more specifically, loud music leads young men to drink draft beer. maybe bc it’s harder to give the bartender their order for a mixed drink?
Music versus no music would cause me to spend more time anywhere. Hell, I’d go to an AA meeting if a good band was playing.
Here’s how to end the noisy boombox plague:
Ask some poor wretch if he’d like to have a ten- or twenty-dollar bill. If his answer is Yes, tell him about your noisy boombox neighbor and then say:
“The money is yours if you can figure out something so I won’t have to hear that guy’s boombox again. Don’t kill him or beat him up. But do whatever you have to do to silence that Hollywoodized lowlife!”
Believe me, this is VERY effective. Heard of the VAB’s? They’re the “Vigilantes Against Boomboxes.” Or you can start your own vigilante group.
Reactions, anyone?
[from Karl's Kastle in Mitchell County, Kansas]